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 Post subject: VOYAGER: Geillis and Sandringham
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:39 pm 
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After reading the whole book, I have something gnawing at me and I'm wondering if I missed something. In Chapter 60, after Claire, Jamie, and Geillis have all chatted about everything and Claire and Jamie are leaving, Jamie asks Geillis, " "I wonder...since ye mentioned having lived in Paris for a time-whether ye might have been acquainted there wi' a gentleman of my own acquaintance. Did ye by chance ken the Duke of Sandringham?" "

Geillis says she did know him and I just wonder if Geillis also might have been behind all the efforts to rid Jamie and Claire. I went back to DIA and see that the Duke said he tried to get Jamie first, then changed his mind and went after Claire. Also, the treasure box was supposed to be Sandringham's at one time. How did Geillis know where to find it? Why did it take so long for her to retrieve it? So, I'm not sure if I'm overthinking this whole bit...
but I did wonder what Jamie was thinking about when he asked her in a passing way.

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 Post subject: Re: Geillis and Sandringham
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:38 pm 
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There are many details missing, without which is it difficult to trace the series of events. I gather Jamie knew Geillis's political sentiments and assumed she would have aligned herself with the Duke. After escaping her sentence at Crainsmuir, Geillis must have laid low until she could get to the treasure.

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 Post subject: Re: Geillis and Sandringham
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:12 pm 
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Celestem wrote:
So, I'm not sure if I'm overthinking this whole bit...



:lol: Isn't "overthinking" what websites like this are all about?! It's a place for all of us Outlandish Overthinkers to gather together and overthink amongst friends. :hug:

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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Geillis and Sandringham
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:00 pm 
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Clan Fraser
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Celestem wrote:
Geillis says she did know him and I just wonder if Geillis also might have been behind all the efforts to rid Jamie and Claire. I went back to DIA and see that the Duke said he tried to get Jamie first, then changed his mind and went after Claire. Also, the treasure box was supposed to be Sandringham's at one time. How did Geillis know where to find it? Why did it take so long for her to retrieve it? So, I'm not sure if I'm overthinking this whole bit...
but I did wonder what Jamie was thinking about when he asked her in a passing way.


Overthink away! :flower:

I think you are on to something! In DIA, we learn the Duke of Sandringham, via the musical cypher, offered the Bonnie Prince 10,000 pounds. Jamie and Claire connect this to Geillis, as she was able to divert 10,000 pounds from her husband for the Jacobite cause. In Voyager, we see the connection again through the treasure and its link to the Duke (the coins). Geillis and Sandringham were in cahoots, its just not clear exactly how/when/why. When Jamie asked Geillis about Sandringham, he was asking Geillis to verify the connect-the-dots.

Have you read The Exile? In it, we learn Geillis was behind several attempts on Jamie's life during Outlander, because she saw Jamie's possible ascension to chief of Clan MacKenzie as a threat to the Jacobite cause (she could control Dougal but Jamie was a wild-card).

Coming full circle: was Geillis behind the Duke's attempts on Jamie and Claire in DiA? Was that the underlying motive for Jamie's question in Voyager?

As far as how Geillis knew the location of the box and why it took her so long to retrieve, I have no idea!

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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Geillis and Sandringham
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:26 pm 
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I am beginning The Fiery Cross right now. This whole series is new to me and it is all a first read, although I did re-read Outlander already. The Exile doesn't appeal to me, but I will probably get to it after I'm done with the last novel. I also have Lord John books to get to and haven't because I'm too focused on the Outlander series.
Sometimes the story is better if the author doesn't divulge everything. It makes the story line interesting to the reader and that's why we have forums like these!

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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Geillis and Sandringham
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:15 pm 
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Geillis and Sandringham had to be in cahoots together. We find out that Dougal brought her to France with him, probably when he ran into J&C in DIA. This is also the time when there were various assassin attempts on J&C. Another thing that points to their collaboration is that Geillie knew her Scottish history before going back in time and was determined to change it. Even Claire knew that Sandringham was a powerful person during this era but wasn't too sure of the details. In Geillie's obsessive research prior to going back, she had to know that she needed to align herself with him. IMO


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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Geillis and Sandringham
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:42 pm 
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Yes, you're right! When I posted this, I was reading Voyager. So it was all new and fresh for me. Now, I can see how things come together. What is amazing is that Diana G doesn't use a storyboard and writes as she goes along. That, to me, is amazing!

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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Geillis and Sandringham
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:00 pm 
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Pauline wrote:
Even Claire knew that Sandringham was a powerful person during this era but wasn't too sure of the details. In Geillie's obsessive research prior to going back, she had to know that she needed to align herself with him. IMO


Pauline ~ you really pull all of the pieces together! Thank you! :bow:

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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Geillis and Sandringham
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:27 am 
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Celestem wrote:
Also, the treasure box was supposed to be Sandringham's at one time. How did Geillis know where to find it. Why did it take so long to retrieve it.
I think she put it there to begin with. What I wondered about was why didn't Ian or Jamie bring the box off the island when they went there before then young Ian wouldn't have been kidnapped.

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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Geillis and Sandringham
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:03 pm 
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Murtaghlovesellen wrote:
Celestem wrote:
Also, the treasure box was supposed to be Sandringham's at one time. How did Geillis know where to find it. Why did it take so long to retrieve it.
I think she put it there to begin with. What I wondered about was why didn't Ian or Jamie bring the box off the island when they went there before then young Ian wouldn't have been kidnapped.



I always assumed it was safer from frivolous spending and potentially a moral concern in case the owner came back. But since you ask the question, here's how I would reason it. The treasure was both UNSAFE to have on Estate and NOT SAFE on the Estate.

Although Jaime has been pardoned, he is still an person of interest. The Highlanders are an oppressed people in the way of the Jim Crowe South where free black persons were institutionally victimized and openly harassed. The Highlands are utterly desolated and people are barely hanging on. Lord John explicitly threatened Jaime with the looting of Lollybroch and abuse of his family on the merest hint of a possible Jacobite treasure just 5-6 years before.

Jaime, Ian and Jenny would not want to invite more suspicion or intrusiveness into their lives than they must. If the British believed that there was a Jacobite-connected treasure on Estate, they would contrive have the Estate audited and all wealth seized whether treasure or not, baldly loot the place, and intimidate tenants and family (including children) to give them information.

Young Ian felt his being given the knowledge of and location to the treasure was a right of passage. Laoghaire AND Claire are unaware of this treasure. Not everyone close to Jaime is trusted with this. The Highlanders of the Estate, the family and neighbors are not to be trusted with this. They are hungry. They are broken. They are afraid. They are human, and thus greedy, impulsive, self-centered and careless. Highlander culture is highly nationalist, but clan supremacy made theft modus operandi. The treasure is at risk of being stolen; lives are at risk of being murdered.

The risk of having your wealth easily accessible is a serious threat to self-discipline. How many times were people at Lollybroch hungry but not starved as the exiles in France were (thank god for those potatoes). How often were loved ones sick, but fortunately too sick to make the journey to Seal Island? Laoghaire alone would have squandered this treasure Jones-ing for social status.

No, the treasure was neither safe on Lollybroch property nor safe to have on Lollybroch property. And as it had safely lasted in its hiding spot for 20 years, I would have left it there too.


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