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 Post subject: VOYAGER: Chapter 62: ABANDAWE
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:02 pm 
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Voyager - By Diana Gabaldon

Please discuss Outlander, Dragonfly in Amber and Voyager ONLY in this thread. Thanks! :bigsmile:
The SPOILER Thread can be found here.



Chapter 62: ABANDAWE

Part 1 & 2:
Jamie's the governor's palace discussing leaving arrangements with Grey. Grey offers his boat instead of using Jared's, but Jamie decides he rather "steal" John's boat. Little action won't hurt anyone. Grey has lots on his plate from fear of Maroons and fear of the Chinaman. And off course, John, the love sick puppy that he is, when Jamie's needs him, he wouldn't care if his feet are on fire; he'd do anything for him!
After some small talk (which sometimes sounds like a married couple), John warns Jamie of where NOT to sail. As Jamie was about to leave, John asked Jamie that maybe Claire should stay with him, for "protection". Yeah right! Like Claire said, it's called "jealousy". You really have to feel sorry for John. So Jamie tells him that Claire must go with him, she can't stay. Obviously they can't tell him why.

Fergus was annoyed that he can't come with Jamie and Claire, but Jamie explains that since he is married, he rather not leave Marsali widowed, therefore, he must stay.

Part 3:
Jamie, Claire, Stern and the smugglers set sail when it started getting dark. Jamie was tired, so he lay down a bit. Stern talks about the weather, which will rain soon enough. I noticed that Jamie hardly sleeps! How does he do that!? With Claire, you know when she is tired because she starts talking to herself or sees double! LOL
As Stern talks about the weather, Claire doesn't understand how Stern or Jamie can tell the weather to come by just looking at the sky. Then they talk about supernatural stuff. Off course Stern doesn't believe in that. He believes in science. Little does he know what "magic" can do, like the stones. He talks about faith, which I think he believes, especially being a Jew. To me, science is proof, but faith everything. I can understand his thoughts. Sometimes I think DG goes way deep such things. The jump between the storyline and reality is so real. Makes you think 
After their conversation, Claire remembered the rest of the boys that Geilie was keeping. So she asked Stern whether he knew where are they. So instead of Stern answers, Jamie answered "we found them", "Dinna ask more, Sassenach-for I willna tell ya." Ok, I must know. Did she kill them!?

Part 4 & 5:
They dropped anchor near dawn, on the northern coast of Hispaniola. They parted from their friends, except for Stern. Amazing how loyal Duncas is, insisting to go with him, yet his loyalty made him stay and obey.
They go through the jungle, sleep the night as well, but reach the place at noon on the second day. Claire sees the standing stones and feels a bit light headed. Stern doesn't "get it". They obviously have to go near it, Stern explains how these stones have been there before the slaves where around. How does he know these things!? Did he have the right scientific tools to check that or he asked around?
I think Jamie was a bit freaked out with the stones, he asks Claire "Can ye hear them, Claire?" next to Lawrence, who looked at them all weird. So Claire goes forward, listening to the humming sound. She puts her palm on the stone. What was she thinking!? Next thing you know, she is knocked out, hardly conscious of Jamie calling out her name. Then she "sees" Geilie green eyes smiling at her. Jamie and Stern call out to her, she becomes more conscious. Claire tells Jamie that Geilie is here. Does that mean she can see through the stones? Or perhaps feel others near her who can go through the stones? Stern obviously has no clue who she is talking about and how she knows this.
Claire tells them Geile is in a cave, which Stern knows the entrance to, so he takes them. She then stops Jamie to tell him "Jamie – she knows I'm here, too". Creepy!!! You know this got me thinking, if she can "feel" someone close by, why couldn't she use that with Bree?

Part 6:
They go through the dark cave. Jamie is not sure they are going the right way, but Claire says she can hear "them". Jamie holds her tight, afraid she will be sucked back through the stones. They go on walking again, holding tight just in case. As they walk, Jamie says to Claire "If it will be a choice between her and one of us – then it must be me. Ye know that, aye?" You know, sometimes I think if Jamie did sacrifice himself and Claire was left alone…is that the end?
They reached a part of the cave that had light. Geillis says "So ya came, did you?" CREEPY!!! She just creeps me out. Literally those witches you hear about as a kid! So seems to have waited for them. She knew Claire would come. Jamie sees Ian, and I love this line "Take your hand off him, ye wicked b****". Oh yeah, you go man!!! He was stepping forward, then Geilies raises her pistol at him, so he stops dead.
Geilie has such nerves. She warns Jamie if he takes any step further, she will kill him and then tells Claire "A life for a life, sweet Claire. Ye tried to save me once, on Craigh na Dun; I saved you from the witch-trail at Cranesmuir. We're quits now, aye?" Ok, can someone remind me how Claire saved her?
So she starts getting Ian ready and apologizes to Claire that she is sorry she has to "take the girl, but she will leave Jamie. Jamie didn't get that one, so he asked which girl. Brianna, duh! Now obviously Jamie wasn't having that. Now Geilie went too far. You don't mess with Jamie's family! He lunges at her and she shoots. Jamie doesn't care, his hand is around her throat. Claire went into some trance, Geilie saw that and started going for the other gun. Claire seized the ax that was on the floor and goes to Geilie…swung at her. Geilie moves one step and that was it for her. Jamie has blood coming down his head. Claire wakes from her trance; they get Ian and run out! Ian says "I can hear her! God, oh God, she's coming!" What do you suppose that means? He is just traumatized? Also, it doesn't really say that Geilie is dead. She falls, yes, but not dead. I had to read that part twice to get it. So Geilie didn't follow them, it was just the wind in the cave making sounds. A storm was coming.

Part 7:
They go outside, Stern was waiting. They made introductions, which kind of seemed to "relaxed". I would have been freaking out by now. They get to a resting place and Claire looks at Jamie's head. So this is what she feels when she checks him "There was a large, tender lump on the back of his head. The pistol ball had traveled under the skin, skimming the curve of his skull, and come to rest just over his occiput." When I first read this, I thought of Bree. It must have been her! The again, I think the trance that Claire got into at the cave with the ax, was also Bree. Could this have been what Bree said about protecting them?
After Claire takes out the bullet, she just starts crying. I think she finally got out of her shock and realized what could have happened. Jamie just held her until she fell asleep.

Part 8:
Claire wakes up. Ian starts talking about how it was with Mrs. Abernathy. I have to admit this part was hard for me, especially the way she used them or him. How could Geilie think she could get away with everything, Rape, murder and more? After telling that to them, how could he go to sleep?
Claire and Jamie talk about Ian going back home to Scotland. Talk about where to go next. Then they settle to go to sleep, when Jamie asks for his coat. Claire thinks he was cold, but he said he just wanted his bairns next to him (Bree's photos and William's picture). Sweet.


Over all, this chapter was quite hard for me. Was much more interested than 61, but very emotional.

Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Chapter 62: ABANDAWE
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:23 pm 
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Meytal, great summary!!! This is a very hard chapter.

I do think John wanted Claire to stay for her own protection, he is a galant man and knows there is danger involved. Yes he has feelings for Jamie but he knows those will never go further so I don't think jealousy was the reason.

I am sure someone will remember how Claire saved Gaellis and I don't specifically remember.

It was interesting and creepy how each knew the other was there and I think the proximity to the stones sort of 'linked' them or made them more attuned to each other. I don't know that Claire was channeling Bree as much as being a momma bear - don't mess with my kids!

We can pretty well know that Gaellis is dead as an axe to the head is not easily recoverable and not in those times. Claire split her skull. Also, if I am not mistaken, DG has said she is dead. (I don't think this is a spoiler but can remove it if you all think it is).

Poor Ian, to have endured so much in his young life. Yes, I do think the others were killed as they were no longer useful.

This is a long chapter but you hit the mark and did a good job summing it up!

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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Chapter 62: ABANDAWE
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:08 pm 
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I think Geilles is referring to Claire trying to stop her from going through the stones. Remember? At the beginning of the book. Claire wanted to warn her that she would be burned.

Pretty wild chapter. ! I did not think Claire was channeling... I thought she was just really pissed off. She has gone over the edge a couple of times before when she gets really mad. Battle lust.


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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Chapter 62: ABANDAWE
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:08 pm 
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Geillie is definitely dead. Remember the skull that Joe Abernathy and Claire examine towards the beginning of Voyager? It was yours truly. Claire can sense that the person did not wish to die. How ironic that it was Claire who unknowingly led to her demise.

Young Ian has endured so much at a young age. It is a wonder he is not emotionally scarred by the end of Voyager.

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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Chapter 62: ABANDAWE
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:48 pm 
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I do think LJ is jealous of Claire. I don't think that was his primary motivation for requesting Jamie to leave Claire with him. I think he was trying to protect her, but I think given Jamie's reaction, it was clear to LJ that Claire and Jamie are a team, and that was probably hard for LJ to see.

I think that Geillis killed all those boys. I looked up Rose Hall and discovered the legend of Annie Palmer, a white plantation owner who supposedly killed three of her husbands as well as a number of slave-lovers. She was supposedly into voodoo and was called "the white witch of Rose Hall," so I imagine that DG based Geillis (inn Jamaica, anyway) on Annie Palmer.

I wasn't entirely clear on what was happening around the stones. I got the impression that those who can travel through the stones are linked by something greater than themselves. This was a bit of the supernatural happening. The part where they were leaving and could hear the cave "breathing" was really, really creepy.

Geillis was definitely dead. As soon as I knew they were going to the cave, I knew the Geillis was going to get it. Based on the foreshadowing with Joe Abernathy and the skull in the PictSweet box. Interesting that Joe Abernathy is descended from the slaves at Geillis's plantation - was he descended from Ishmael (given that his son picked that one name Ishmael Shabazz III or whatever)?


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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Chapter 62: ABANDAWE
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:32 pm 
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Great job summarizing a long and difficult chapter, meytal! :-)

Mary_Mac wrote:
I think that Geillis killed all those boys. I looked up Rose Hall and discovered the legend of Annie Palmer, a white plantation owner who supposedly killed three of her husbands as well as a number of slave-lovers. She was supposedly into voodoo and was called "the white witch of Rose Hall," so I imagine that DG based Geillis (inn Jamaica, anyway) on Annie Palmer.


Wow! I had no idea Rose Hall was a real place, but reading what you wrote, I am sure DG based this version of Geilie on her. Thanks so much for the info! :D And, I agree with everything else you said too. I was going to respond to some of the same things, but you already covered it, so I'll just say: "What Mary_Mac said." :bigsmile:

I think Claire was definitely in Mama Bear mode and wasn't channeling Bree at all. She describes the earlier time when someone hit her car near Bree and this was similar. Geillis might have gotten away with something if she hadn't threatened Brianna, but once she did, both Jamie and Claire were in full protective mode.

And, yes, poor Ian. :( I think the fact that Jamie, Claire and Ian were each using some of the antibiotics Claire brought with her forges an extra bond between the three of them. Ian was already close to Jamie and had made a bond with Claire almost immediately upon meeting her, but this is one more thing to add, and one more hint of what she is.

I thought Stern was remarkably accepting of the weirdness going on. He doesn't ask about Geillis, despite whatever attraction he had had for her (mentioned in the previous chapter). He sees Claire's reactions to the stone circle and seems to accept that without question. He's an interesting guy (and I'd love to have him along on any camping trips I went on).

I'm still confused about what Geillis intended for Brianna. She talks about having to "take" the girl. Did she intend to use her blood - Fraser blood - for some ritual? Force her to try to seize the throne of Scotland (and how the heck would she accomplish that??? - wait; she's crazy so it doesn't have to make sense)? Or what?


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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Chapter 62: ABANDAWE
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:18 pm 
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Mary Mac, thanks for the insights on Rose Hall! So interesting to know this bit of backstory.

I agree with all the comments above, that while John may certainly have been trying to protect Claire, it's natural that he would feel jealousy that Jamie needs Claire by his side no matter what -- especially given that John doesn't know that Claire's being there serves a particular purpose.

I also assumed that when Geillie refers to Claire trying to save her on Craigh na Dun, she meant when Claire (1968) tried to prevent her from going through the stones in the first place. After all, at that point Claire believed that Geillie had been burned as a witch, so as far as Claire knew, she really would have been saving her life.

It's really not entirely clear what Geillis wanted to do with Brianna. I assumed that she'd try to grab her and bring her back through the stones, maybe keep her for breeding purposes since her descendants would potentially regain the throne of Scotland. Disturbing... but then so is everything about Geillis.

Why exactly did she need virgin Scottish boys? Do we know what the spell/magic was that she was trying to do with them?

Poor Ian. I loved his conversation with Jamie, though. Jamie is like the perfect man (I know, in so many ways!) for this type of thing. Time and again, we've seen him be the anchor for various family members after a trauma. I think he handled things with Ian exactly right, by letting him talk and not diminishing his awful experiences, but giving enough support and sympathy to allow him to start to heal.

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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Chapter 62: ABANDAWE
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:41 pm 
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Hmm. I hadn't considered that Geillis might want to bring Brianna through the stones. I sort of doubt it though because she doesn't know if Brianna is capable of time traveling. Claire can; Jamie can't, and I don't think Claire told her anything about Bree hearing the stones. She also seemed disturbed by the passage and was amazed that Claire survived it 3 times. I didn't get the impression that she was excited about going through an extra time herself. :thinking:

Do we learn more about the virgin Scottish boys (from Ian, presumably) in the last chapter? I vaguely remember something about gemstones within them and it hasn't come up yet, so I'm thinking it must be still to come. Or I'm just remembering wrong, which is possible too.


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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Chapter 62: ABANDAWE
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:56 pm 
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audiobooklover wrote:
Hmm. I hadn't considered that Geillis might want to bring Brianna through the stones. I sort of doubt it though because she doesn't know if Brianna is capable of time traveling. Claire can; Jamie can't, and I don't think Claire told her anything about Bree hearing the stones. She also seemed disturbed by the passage and was amazed that Claire survived it 3 times. I didn't get the impression that she was excited about going through an extra time herself. :thinking:


True. But I don't know what else to think, based on Geilie's statement: "I'm sorry I shall have to take the girl, but I'll leave ye the man." Where could she be taking Brianna to? I can't imagine that her plan would be to kidnap her and remain in the 20th century with Bree as her prisoner, long enough to breed an heir to the throne. And now that she knows that Claire survived three journeys, perhaps she believes it's possible herself.

Of course, since she met the pointy end of the axe two paragraphs later, I guess we'll never know for sure what she meant to do!

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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Chapter 62: ABANDAWE
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:15 pm 
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audiobooklover wrote:
I vaguely remember something about gemstones within them and it hasn't come up yet, so I'm thinking it must be still to come. Or I'm just remembering wrong, which is possible too.


When I googled "why did Geillis want virgin boys" it led me to a blurb about Geillis and it mentioned these special gemstones that she believed were growing inside the boys (but only virgins), but I don't remember reading this anywhere in Voyager.


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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Chapter 62: ABANDAWE
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:35 am 
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Hmmm. :thinking: Now, I'm wondering if that's something we learn in Drums? I'm sure I've read it somewhere and you found something about it in a search, but if it's not in Voyager, it must come later? I'm baffled. Since it's so vague and related to the boys and gemstones, I think I'll leave it here even though it is a potential spoiler (maybe a real spoiler if any of us could actually remember it :lol:).


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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Chapter 62: ABANDAWE
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:16 pm 
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I went and checked some of the other Voyager-related discussions on this board, and couldn't find anything else about the boys either. Has DG ever elaborated on this elsewhere? I know some people follow her discussions on Compuserve, but I couldn't find anything specifically about this there either.

Makes me wish I had taken notes the first time I'd read all these books, so I'd have all answers to all mysteries right at my fingertips!

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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Chapter 62: ABANDAWE
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:19 pm 
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TwilightTINK:
Hard? You think? Crazy hard! One of the hardest for me to read.
I think if I was in John's shoes, I would be very jelous and wouldn't want Claire to have "fun" with Jamie. I would want to keep her with me. Why should she get all the fun?
You know, I was wondered what the stones can do other than the time travel or kill you. They seem to obviously have some sort of linking like you said.
Re Geillie being dead...just making sure :-)
In the end, i felt bad for Ian. For a young man, he wen't through a tramatic expierence. I don't know if this is a spoiler, but if I think of Ian later in his life, he seems not effect by what happened to him. I wonder why.
thanks again.

-------------------------------------------------

Janet23:
But that didn't save Geillie, did it? I mean Geillie went through anyways. I think I am confussed.

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Lady Jayne:
I forgot that, about the skull. Wierd though the Joe has it. Creepy if you ask me.

-------------------------------------------------

Mary_Mac:
I agree with you about John. Jelousy played a part there. Claire felt it as well.
It's cool that Rose Hall is a real place. Sounds like DG got her story from there. Wow, sometimes I am amazed how much work it takes to put into writing a book.
When i read Voyager and Ishamel came into the story, I thought about Joe's son. So perhaps Joe is decedant of Ishamel after all.
thanks.

-------------------------------------------------

audiobooklover:
Thanks audio..it was a hard chapter, but I think the previous one was longer.
Do you think that because Jamie knows what it means to be rapped and used, he knew how to handle Ian and what he was going through?
I think Stern was smart enough not to ask questions :) Good guy like you said.
I doubt Geillie needed Bree's blood. I think she needed her...to come back to the past for something.
thanks again

-------------------------------------------------

Lisa SF:
Re the whole Bree breading purposes....sick! After getting to know Bree, Geillie wouldn't stand a chance!!!
Geillie needed the virgin boys because of a spell or something..and a sacrafice. I think.
Jamie is a sensitive guy every women wants, yet strong and hard headed at the same time :)


-------------------------------------------------
Ook, who is volunteering to re-read this chapter, to see if anything comes up regarding the virigin boys. I am quite certain Geillie mentioned her purpose in Voyager, just don't remember exact. Volunteers? :)

thanks again

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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Chapter 62: ABANDAWE
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:19 am 
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*Phew- wipes brow* that was a tough one!

Great discussions everyone!

Jamie and John:

"Its a great relieve to me to be thought trivial," Jamie said, very dryly.
*snip*
"I should regard it as a great personal favour if you would endeavour not to be captured."
:rotfl:

This makes me want to see more of J & J together - Nawwww!

I thought it was kinda sweet that John offered to look after Claire - why the hell not, he's looking after Willie for Jamie, why not his wife too aye?!

Fergus and Marsali:
Why do you think DG chose to separate them from J & C and Ian?

Dr Stern:
:thinking: I don't think we run into him again, but given how much he experiences on this trip, you'd think he would crop again no?

"that people will treat with disdain such phenomena as are proved by the evidence of the senses, and commonly experienced - while they will defend to the death the reality of a phenomenon which they have neither seen nor experienced."

To me this conversation is saying that if Stern sees it with his own eyes he will believe it. He see's Claire's reaction to the stones with his own eyes, and other stuff :thinking: Does he document something that then ends up in the hands of Free-masons re: later in the series????

I love how Claire and Jamie are so relaxed about the stones talking to her and chatting about "proper days" etc.. Stern's gotta be thinking that J & C are cray cary along with Mrs A. by now!

The virgin boys:
The reason for Geillis needing virgin boys is definitely not disclosed in Voyager..I did wonder though if she was just cray cray enough to think that having sex with a virgin would rid her of the syphilis? This was considered a cure back in the them days - in fact in Africa today, having sex with a baby is believed to cure you of AIDS :(

I think the fact that Jamie won't tell Claire (and lets face it, he's an honest lad he's told her plenty). Means that they found the boys, or parts of them and that they were so messed with or defiled that he doesn't want her to have nightmares about it :(

Geillis:
Just in case your wondering a sionnach means fox - nawww

Claire embracing her inner red thing:
Hmmmm now I always thought Claire dinna have an inner red beastie, I thought she was all healer blue like M. Raymond...I guess though when roused we all have our inner feral.
I love how Claire says she didn't have to give herself over to it, it had taken her...you go girl! Right on Sista! Show that Geillis Beatch that she don't gona go near your kin! :yipee:

Jamie and Ian:
I love it when Jamie calls Ian his wee boy - nawwww!

OK I've my nit picky hat on now, at the end of it all, Claire says that "Not waiting for the men to follow. I turn and walked away." then two sentences on she says "I followed Jamie's broad back through branches and clearings..."

Soz I know it's because of the way DG writes, but it still annoys me that her editors aren't as efficient as they should be ken? She should hire me instead ;)

Jamie and Claire:
I wondered where the occiput was...so here's a link in case you dinna ken either ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occiput

I love that Jamie anchors Claire, he did it at the stones "brought her back" and then he does it when she's fragmenting afterwards...I imagine this is kind of what Margaret Campbell goes through during her trauma, only without a Jamie/Ewan figure to ground her and bring her back into herself, her soul/spirit splits off and goes off on it's own and only bits of her find their way back to her body. Thank the gods and goddesses for Jamie Fraser is all I can say!

Jamie and the bairns...at this point in the story it was my fervent hope that one day somehow, not only would Willie come to know his Da, but that somehow Bree would too...sigh :<3:


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