|
It is currently Mon May 21, 2012 4:36 am
|
View unanswered posts | View active topics
| Welcome |
|
Welcome to outlanderbookclub
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. In addition, registered members also see less advertisements. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!
|
| Author |
Message |
|
Lisa SF
|
Post subject: VOYAGER: Chapter 60: The Scent of Gemstones Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:01 pm |
|
 |
| sapphire member |
 |
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:43 pm Posts: 839 Location: San Francisco, CA
|
Voyager by Diana Gabaldon Copyright 1994 Please discuss Outlander, Dragonfly in Amber and Voyager ONLY in this thread. Thanks! Chapter 60: The Scent of GemstonesClaire and Jamie set out through the jungle for the 10-mile ride to Rose Hall. They worry about Mr. Willoughby – if he is innocent of the murder, he is still likely to be lynched, as the mood in Kingston is quite ugly at the moment. Even more so, they’re worried about Ian. Time is running out; they have only five more days in which to find him before their cover story will be blown and they’ll need to go into hiding once more. At Rose Hall, while waiting for the lady of the house, Claire observes the opulent décor, which includes oddities such as a variety of fertility icons, an array of silver bells, and many items bearing the Jacobite rose. Claire and Jamie are stunned to see that Mrs. Abernathy is none other than Geillis Duncan, who had reportedly been burned as a witch twenty years in the past. Geillis is very much alive, and doesn’t seem very surprised to see Claire and Jamie. Geillis is vulgar and outspoken, speaks plainly of her disgust with Charles Stuart, and questions Claire about who the two people were who she saw at Craigh na Dun the night she passed through the stones. Geillis explains the deception that enabled her to survive Cranesmuir and tells of her time living in Paris under the name Madame Melisande, a seer of some repute consulted by ladies of the court. When asked about Ian, Geillis claims to have no whites on her plantation at all. However, Claire and Jamie both believe that she’s lying. While Jamie makes an excuse to go poke around the grounds, Geillis takes Claire to see an ill slave, and Claire uses the opportunity to ask some of the kitchen slaves about Ian. Claire and Jamie are more convinced than ever that Ian is being kept at Rose Hall. When Claire rejoins Geillis in the sitting room, she is dismayed and disturbed to see Geillis looking through the photos of Brianna which Jamie had had in his coat pocket. Geillis realizes that Claire must have passed through the stones three times altogether, and is amazed that she survived it. Geillis takes out a wooden box, which Claire recognizes from Jamie’s descriptions as the silkies’ treasure. Inside the box are a large collection of jewels. Geillis takes Claire up to her workroom, which is very reminiscent of her workroom back in Cranesmuir. Geillis tells Claire everything she’s figured out or surmised about the power of the gemstones and their role in time travel, as well as the use of blood in the ritual. Claire realizes with shock that Geillis has murdered at least five husbands. As Jamie and Claire head back down the jungle path, they realize several disturbing facts: [*]One of Brianna’s picture is missing. Geillis must have kept it, and Claire feels a sense of dread at what this might mean. [*]They see Reverend Campbell coming up the path, and wonder what business he may have with Geillis. [*]They are convinced that Ian is at Rose Hall, but realize they will need to ask Lord John for help if they are to have any chance of rescuing him. Questions/Food For Thought:While this was a lengthy chapter, it was mostly an unfolding of facts that lay the groundwork for the climax and conclusion of the book. After the emotional upheavals in the last chapter, did you expect there to be any lingering tension between Claire and Jamie? Has Claire truly moved forward and come to peace with all of Jamie’s secrets?Given that Geillis is a woman of the 20th century who’d lived at the time of the birth of civil rights, are you shocked that she seems to take so easily to being a slave owner? How does this fit with everything else we know about Geillis?When Geillis first enters the room, we see through Claire’s eyes how Geillis has deteriorated physically, no longer the pretty young woman she’d first met twenty years earlier. Throughout this book, the issue of how the various characters have aged comes up again and again. Claire is certainly worried about whether Jamie will still find her attractive; both Laoghaire and Geillis are described as having lost their youth and beauty; and Claire meets several other women along the way who look quite old but who are actually younger in age than Claire. What do you make of this emphasis on women’s looks? How much of this has to do with Claire’s own worries and insecurities?Any other thoughts, puzzles, observations? Even though I’ve read it before, I felt completely on edge by the end of this chapter, dying to just keep reading and get to the big rescue!
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
audiobooklover
|
Post subject: Re: VOYAGER Chapter 60: The Scent of Gemstones Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:50 pm |
|
 |
| Clan Fraser |
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:09 pm Posts: 2683
|
Great summary, Lisa!  I read this a few days ago, but I left myself a few notes of things I wanted to comment on.  But, I'll start with your questions. At other times when Claire and Jamie have been at odds, they have and argument, then intense sex, and then put it behind them, so I think that's pretty much what happened again. It seems to be how their relationship functions. Examples include the first night they returned to Leoch after getting married, when Jamie when to get a ring in Outlander, and the post-miscarriage/pre-return-to-Scotland scene with the nettles in Dragonfly. That doesn't mean that Claire will never feel concerns about William again, but I think she has accepted that part of Jamie's past and the fact that he hadn't told her sooner. Geillis is just nuts. Literally at this point with the syphilis, but she's always been driven to the point of doing whatever it took - like murdering husbands. So, I'm not surprised she took easily to owning slaves. Just another tool for her to use toward her goals. Great observation about aging women and their looks which, as you pointed out, comes up several times throughout this book. I think it has a lot to do with Claire's insecurities and wondering how that 20 year absence will affect her relationship with Jamie when she comes back. Fortunately for Claire, the various comparisons work well in her favor. OK, now to my notes: I had completely forgotten that Claire and Geillis had talked about zombies. Had I remembered that, I probably would have been less surprised the first time I saw the story title "Lord John and the Plague of Zombies". I noticed that Geillie took the photo of Brianna before Claire mentioned the idea of needing an anchor to go to through the stones. What purpose did she expect the picture to serve before Claire told her that? I can't imagine that she just wanted to admire Bree.  In my memory, I had thought she took it after Claire mentioned the anchor idea and then it made a lot of sense, but in this order? At the end of Geillie's story of how Ishmael got his name, Claire mentions crème de menthe. I assume Geillie gave that detail in her story? Otherwise Claire gave away something important because how could she have known what sort of alcohol was in the barrel? And, some other random comments: Removing the eye worm? Ick! Geillis and the Reverend? Two crazy people who deserve each other. Good thing Lord John is the new governor or they'd have a heck of a time figuring out how to rescue Ian. Do gemstones really have a scent? Or is that just Geillie's madness? And, she said something about learning about the gemstones from a guy from India or something, right? Do you think we should know anything more about him? We now know that Geillis was Madame Melisande. Was her informant someone else we know? The only possibility that pops to mind is Master Raymond and I don't feel like it was him (or maybe I just don't want it to have been because I'd like to believe he'd recognize her for the nut she is). I know Claire noticed some smell in the workroom, but was that really the ground gemstones, or something else? Was the miniature of Willie with the pictures of Brianna? It was not mentioned, and I suppose it was easier for Jamie to leave the miniature at Jared's plantation since it is not an anachronism, but I thought he might have said something about the "bairns" plural. Or maybe not. I was surprised Jamie left his coat with the pics. I would have expected him to keep it in sight and maybe hang it on a fence or something outside. I thought he was pretty careful about the pics and Geillis was certainly not to be trusted. I suppose he left it with Claire in the room to keep an eye on it. . .
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Lady Jayne
|
Post subject: Re: VOYAGER Chapter 60: The Scent of Gemstones Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:22 pm |
|
 |
| Clan Fraser |
 |
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:41 pm Posts: 5328 Location: New York
|
|
Great summary, Lisa.
Claire has definitely aged better than most, which may be due to having lived in the modern world for the last twenty years. I personally think she has good genes (including the time traveling gene.). I like to think that her good and honest nature have shown in her beautiful and healthy features.
ABL, the zombie storyline sets up Plague of Zombies well. It doesn't surprise me that Geillis wuld be into voodoo. It was careless of Jamie to leave his coat out in the open. I gather it was a momentary lapse of judgement. Perhaps Gellie wanted the photo of Bree so that she could seek her out in the future. Bree would still be the last surviving Fraser who could fulfill the prophecy.
We never do find out what happened to the miniature portrait of William, but hopefully Jamie kept it some place safe.
_________________
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Janet23
|
Post subject: Re: VOYAGER Chapter 60: The Scent of Gemstones Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:53 pm |
|
 |
| emerald member |
 |
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:41 pm Posts: 476 Location: Atlanta, Georgia
|
|
"I noticed that Geillie took the photo of Brianna before Claire mentioned the idea of needing an anchor to go to through the stones. What purpose did she expect the picture to serve before Claire told her that? I can't imagine that she just wanted to admire Bree. " + + + +++possible spoiler+++++ From voyager but later chapter + + + I think Geillis took Bree's picture because she is the last the the Fraser blood. If Geillis is planning on going back to her time and Bree is there, then Geillis could find her and use her. Remember the story about the true Scottish king coming from the Fraser line. Isn't that what she might be after with Ian? Unless she just likes young boys?
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
audiobooklover
|
Post subject: Re: VOYAGER Chapter 60: The Scent of Gemstones Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:08 am |
|
 |
| Clan Fraser |
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:09 pm Posts: 2683
|
|
I think we accept discussions of things in later chapters within the same book without it being a spoiler problem.
She didn't know which boys they were kidnapping, and Ian was just a lucky find by the box of gems, so I don't think she intended to use Ian that way, but she might have seen it as serendipitous. But, that might very well be why she was interested in Brianna.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Lisa SF
|
Post subject: Re: VOYAGER Chapter 60: The Scent of Gemstones Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:40 am |
|
 |
| sapphire member |
 |
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:43 pm Posts: 839 Location: San Francisco, CA
|
|
That was my assumption as well regarding the photo of Brianna -- since Geillis knew from Claire that keeping a picture in her mind of the "anchor" would help ensure that she'd reach the correct time, she'd need that picture of Brianna to travel through the stones and find Bree in order to try to fulfill the Fraser prophecy.
Lady Jayne, I love what you said: I like to think that her good and honest nature have shown in her beautiful and healthy features. Hear, hear!
ABL, absolutely try about Geillis being nuts (even more extreme now that the syphillis is affecting her brain). We know from past experiences with her that she places no value on human life -- except her own and occasionally, the Stuarts. It just stuck me as doubly callous and shocking that a woman of our era could so easily adapt to being a slaveowner, and such a harsh and uncaring one at that. For others at that time, yes, slaves were owned by the affluent plantation owners in Jamaica, and it's just considered how things work. Contrast Geillis and the slaves with all the times we see Claire apply her modern-day sensibility to injustice!
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Janet23
|
Post subject: Re: VOYAGER Chapter 60: The Scent of Gemstones Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:40 am |
|
 |
| emerald member |
 |
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:41 pm Posts: 476 Location: Atlanta, Georgia
|
Lisa SF wrote: . Contrast Geillis and the slaves with all the times we see Claire apply her modern-day sensibility to injustice! When Geilles came through she had a mission. Her purpose(and it must have been a passion) was the restoration of the Stuart line. She did not come through to assimilate into the 18th century. Everything she did was towards her purpose. We don't know for sure but she may not have been by herself. There could have been other travelers with her. She used the people she met toward her purpose. When Claire comes through the first time, it was by chance. Her purpose at that point could only be survival and getting back to Frank. Later, her purpose shifts to survival and Jamie. I see the difference in both of the women's situation. Claire by far seems more humaine. Ouf course the reader knows lots more about Claire and what is going on in her head. We love Claire and Jamie. If there was a bit more the readers were told about what Geilles was thinking we might be more sympathetic! Geiles does try to save Claire. Both women are capable for doing what needs to be done to meet their ends. Claire when confronted is ruthless in protecting and saving Jamie. Both she and Jamie have higher morals than Geiles but are equal in what they are willing to do to meet their needs.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
TrudyJ
|
Post subject: Re: VOYAGER Chapter 60: The Scent of Gemstones Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:14 pm |
|
 |
| sapphire member |
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:02 pm Posts: 522
|
|
Nice Summary, Lisa SF!
I really don't have much to add to everyone's great comments. I did notice that Geillis seemed to not be suprised that Jamie and Claire were in her house - how do you think she would have known this? I am sure there is a lot of gossip that goes around, but it seems that most of the people were very *put off* by Geillis. I suppose that the Reverend Campbell could have told her, but when would he have had the opportunity since the reception was just the night before, wasn't it? I guess it could have passed through servants. Not really that important, but just a curiosity.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
audiobooklover
|
Post subject: Re: VOYAGER Chapter 60: The Scent of Gemstones Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:05 pm |
|
 |
| Clan Fraser |
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:09 pm Posts: 2683
|
I have a vague notion that Claire assumed that Geillis had talked to Ian, found out who he was and expected Jamie and Claire to come after him. Did she know that Claire had gone back to the future? If not, then her appearance in the 18th century shouldn't have come as too much of a shock. That is a pretty big assumption on Claire's part - that Geillis would have talked to Ian enough to get the info and to expect them to arrive at her plantation trying to locate him - but I thought she indicated something. Or maybe I'm making that up. If so it is unintentional. 
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Mary_Mac
|
Post subject: Re: VOYAGER Chapter 60: The Scent of Gemstones Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:11 am |
|
 |
| emerald member |
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:49 pm Posts: 209
|
|
Hi everyone! I'm so glad that you are re-kilting Voyager as I've just finished my first read of it. The thing I'm curious about wrt to Geillie is why she went out of her way to kidnap Scottish boys. What exactly was she doing to them? She wanted them to be virgins, ok, but did they need to be Scottish? I was wondering if she was trying to create the next ruler of Scotland by pinpointing a boy from the Fraser line (young Ian?) BUT that doesn't make sense because she was too old to be a mother - wouldn't she be 10 years older than Claire? And anyway, if that was her plan, why was she concerned about Brianna?
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Pauline
|
Post subject: Re: VOYAGER Chapter 60: The Scent of Gemstones Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:26 am |
|
 |
| Clan Fraser |
 |
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:19 pm Posts: 1612 Location: Rhode Island
|
|
Good question, Mary_Mac! I think that Geillie was obsessed with all things Scottish so that might explain the boys and the virginity thing was probably more to do with her overall witchness thing (aren't they always virgins). My understanding of her obsession with Brianna was because of her uncovering a prophecy that the ruler of Scotland would be of the Fraser clan or something along that line and she was trying to eliminate that possibility.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Mary_Mac
|
Post subject: Re: VOYAGER Chapter 60: The Scent of Gemstones Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:26 pm |
|
 |
| emerald member |
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:49 pm Posts: 209
|
Pauline wrote: Good question, Mary_Mac! I think that Geillie was obsessed with all things Scottish so that might explain the boys and the virginity thing was probably more to do with her overall witchness thing (aren't they always virgins). My understanding of her obsession with Brianna was because of her uncovering a prophecy that the ruler of Scotland would be of the Fraser clan or something along that line and she was trying to eliminate that possibility. Hi Pauline - Well, the fact that she's crazy certainly compicates my understanding of Geilie's objectives! I do wonder why she wanted to eliminate the possibility of a Fraser being in control of Scotland. I thought her original plan was to get rid of English rule - am I off on that one?
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
audiobooklover
|
Post subject: Re: VOYAGER Chapter 60: The Scent of Gemstones Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:24 pm |
|
 |
| Clan Fraser |
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:09 pm Posts: 2683
|
|
I wasn't sure she wanted to eliminate the possibility of a Fraser being in control. I've never been completely clear on the whole prophecy thing, and Geillie's insanity doesn't help the situation, but I thought maybe she wanted to find a Fraser heir so she could try to control his or her rise to control of Scotland. So, she'd want Brianna (or Ian - why not Ian as Jenny's son?) as a figurehead and she'd try to be the one in the background controlling things. [Does that make sense? If not, can someone better explain the prophecy to me because I'm kind of baffled.]
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Janet23
|
Post subject: Re: VOYAGER Chapter 60: The Scent of Gemstones Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:48 pm |
|
 |
| emerald member |
 |
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:41 pm Posts: 476 Location: Atlanta, Georgia
|
 She was after Ian,She had him and clearly had plans for him. I am not sure exactly what. I thought she was trying to conceive a child with his blood line. She would not be as old as Claire. Right? She came through in 1968? Claire sees her in the beginning of Voyager. We get confused because she is already in the 18th century when Claire gets there but she did not come from 1940's she came from the 60s so she would be just a bit older than Bree. There are some references to a movement to Free Scotland at the beginning of Voyager. The Fraser line died out in the 1800s so Bree would be the only person from the line living in the 20th century. Hmmm..... pretty confusing. Where is Repo Man? He is good at sorting these story lines out!
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
audiobooklover
|
Post subject: Re: VOYAGER Chapter 60: The Scent of Gemstones Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:23 pm |
|
 |
| Clan Fraser |
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:09 pm Posts: 2683
|
|
I thought Claire and Geillis were around the same age when they met in the 1740s. Then, they each lived the 20ish years since Outlander - Geillis in the 18th century and Claire in the 20th - but they should still be about the same age. Mary_Mac indicated that Geillis is several years older than Claire, (which I think may be right, but I can't verify from my own memory), so she is still that much older than Claire. The difference was that she went back more than 202 years when she went through the stones, but other than that, they aged at the same rate. And, yes, if all of Jenny and Ian's descendants died out before the 1980s(?) then Bree is the only descendant still there.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
Who is online |
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum
|
|