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Pauline
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Post subject: VOYAGER: Chapter 34: Daddy Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:49 pm |
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| Clan Fraser |
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Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:19 pm Posts: 1612 Location: Rhode Island
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 Courtesy Reminder - Please discuss all books up to and including Voyager only. For discussions including other books in the series, please post in the Spoiler thread. Thanks! The SPOILER Thread can be found here. Voyager, by Diana Gabaldon PART SEVEN Home Again Chapter 34 Daddy Daddy?" I said blankly "Daddy?" That's what we're all yelling at this point! While Jamie turns to stone and dresses quickly throwing a quilt at Claire, the next shock hits us. In walks a vaguely familiar woman screaming about a Sassenach witch and Jamie says "Be Still, Loaghaire!" This is where we all slammed down our books and said "Oh Nooo Jamie. You did not go there!" Loaghaire starts screaming insults at a stunned Claire and Jamie has to stop her from flinging weapons at Claire. He throws her out of the room and has to lock them in to keep L out. By this point, a shaking Claire is trying to get dressed while Jamie tries to explain ( a little too late for that). Hands banging on the door, Claire yelling at him to see his daughter, his explaining that it isn't his daughter, Jamie is doing double time trying to explain a long storied explanation in a very few minutes. He asks her to stay and talk while he straightens things out a bit. Alone, Claire is devastated wondering just what she got herself into. This wasn't the Jamie that she knew. He had a family and a wife and of all people, his wife was her arch enemy. "Liar" she screams to an empty room. Now, she starts thinking of the silent looks, Fergus being sent ahead and her imagination is going wild. She wants to leave just as Jamie returns. He starts to tell his story and Claire is having none of it. He won't let her leave and she asks him what we all wanted to ask, why hadn't he told her earlier. "Because I was afraid" Then he tells her "Am I a man? To want you so badly that nothing else matters? To see you, and know I would sacrifice honor or family or life itself to lie wi' you, even though you left me?"OK, you have to stand behind me and Claire if you want to slap him silly at this point.She lets him have it for blaming her when he sent her back. We get some of the best drama here from Jamie. "Do ye know what it is to live 20 years without a heart?" Oh yes, claire knows. And, then he starts to rail about her being married to Frank, Frank raising his child, and punches the armoire in rage. Now he starts kissing her and she's trying to leave. But Jamie was going to keep her any way he could. They savagely kissed and fought and they are both mightly roused. He starts ripping her gown and swearing at her. Next thing the door swings open and a shower of cold water strikes them. It's Jenny yelling at Jamie about how the whole house can hear them. When Jenny asks Jamie if he isn't ashamed, he responds, "Yes, I am." In a daze, he closes his eyes and leaves the room After the last chapter which was so serene, this chapter is loaded with drama. The truth is now laid out and both parties are dealing with lies and misconceptions. And, all of the underlying resentments are out. Jamie's anger about Frank, his fears of losing Claire again, his resentment of another man raising his child. Why the physical violence at the end? What can be going through Jamie's mind that he thinks that he can force Claire into submission this way?
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audiobooklover
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Post subject: Re: Ch 34 - Daddy Voyager Re-Kilt Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:23 pm |
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| Clan Fraser |
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:09 pm Posts: 2683
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Can I be third in line to slap him? I can only assume that his emotions are so confused and out of control that he's not speaking or acting in reasonable ways. I don't quite understand the physical violence at the end of the chapter - from either of them - but they do have a history of that sort of behavior when they are angry at one another and jealous (even if it is unwarranted). Like in Dragonfly after the miscarriage when Jamie finds Claire after she had brief relations with the King of France, or in Outlander when they returned to Leoch married and Claire thought Jamie had gone to see Laoghaire (how ironic, actually). I think Jamie's attempt to physically restrain her is an honest need to try to prevent her from leaving him. I think he is absolutely terrified of losing her again after she has returned to him and he has rediscovered the love and happiness they shared. But, even if I understand the emotion behind it, he obviously let that go too far. Pauline wrote: This is where we all slammed down our books and said "Oh Nooo Jamie. You did not go there!" Actually, what I did at that point was email the friend who had recommended the books to me with the subject line: "I just need to get this off my chest" He married Laoghaire??? O__OOK. I now return you to your regularly scheduled email correspondence. . . She apparently couldn't resist forwarding it to another friend of hers whom I corresponded with a bit about the books and she agreed completely too. Edited to Add: And, I thought it was absolutely unconscionable for Jamie to call Claire "b****" and "Whore". I know he didn't really mean it and he was just venting his anger, jealousy, frustration, etc. But, she definitely didn't deserve that. But, since I'm already in line to slap him, I suppose there's not much else I can do.
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TwilightTINK
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Post subject: Re: Ch 34 - Daddy Voyager Re-Kilt Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:29 pm |
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| Clan Fraser |
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Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:37 pm Posts: 6535 Location: finding my way to Craigh na Dun
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I was stunned and hurt that Jamie would do that to me, I mean Claire. I completely understood the anger as I was betrayed, I mean Claire. The rage sparked the violence, him blocking her, not letting her leave. I completely understood all that. And the violence sparked the passion again, just like men in battle rape afterwards because their emotions are so charged. It is quite startling to read.
Great summary - Pauline.
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aquagirl
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Post subject: Re: Ch 34 - Daddy Voyager Re-Kilt Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:02 am |
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| purple diamond member |
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Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:10 pm Posts: 1410 Location: NW Arkansas
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Boy that is a hot mess if ever there was one! Worst case scenario of waiting for the right time to bring up something that is sure to upset the other person and having it blow up before you can have "the talk".
The positive thing about Jamie and Claire ranting at one another..it gets it all out in the open. They don't suffer in silence and let the hurts fester. The downside is once words are spoken in anger is that you can't hit the undo button and pretend they were never said. I think that Jamie and Claire know deep down that they are bonded for life and they will always return to each other, no matter what crazy circumstance has gotten in the way.
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repoman
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Post subject: Re: Ch 34 - Daddy Voyager Re-Kilt Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:25 am |
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| Clan Fraser |
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:47 am Posts: 1506 Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan
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Yup, I totally agree with this discussion. This is a perfect example of a saying from an old boss: "Bad news does not get better with age." Earlier, I tried to excuse Jamie's delay in updating Claire. Several rekilts wipe out any excuse for taking this long to present their difficulties. Claire could, maybe, have understood that there would be complications to her return. Jamie fails to be honest with Claire.
Jamie correctly sees that he is losing Claire. (Ya think?!) The fairy tale reunion is crashing to a disaster. I absolutely do not understand Jamie's violence toward Claire. Despair? Frustration with himself?
Absolutely ironic is that while Jenny produced this outrageous scene, she ends it with the voice of what passes for reason!
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highlandheather
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Post subject: Re: Ch 34 - Daddy Voyager Re-Kilt Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:46 am |
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| topaz member |
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:37 am Posts: 49
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The honeymoon is over and they are plunged into reality. Loaghaire and her daughters are the proverbial glass of cold water in the face. The pain of the separation for 20 years could not be washed away so easily. Jamie's and Claire's pain needed an outlet. I think that if it did not happen at this point it would have come up at another time. It would be natural to be angry even if it is irrational and misplaced. I also shut the book and was angry with Jamie. When you put the context on the situation then it makes sense. He had been without Claire for years and was lonely. He married Loaghaire out of pity more than anything else. It makes sense. In some respect the anger and pain of their interactions has nothing to do with Loaghaire and everything to do with each other. Jamie was afraid that Claire would run away and jump through the stones before he could explain. This almost happens if it was not for young Ian's intervention.
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audiobooklover
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Post subject: Re: Ch 34 - Daddy Voyager Re-Kilt Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:49 am |
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| Clan Fraser |
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:09 pm Posts: 2683
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Random question that occurred to me this morning: Where the heck is Fergus? Jamie sent him ahead to warn those at Lallybroch that Jamie was coming home with Claire (and Young Ian), but he hasn't appeared now that they arrived. Was he sent to Young Jamie's house along with the girls? Good points everyone!  I kept nodding as I read  at Aquagirl and getting things out in the open, Repoman at the irony of Jenny producing this scene and then ending as the voice of reason, and Highlandheather about this being the figurative glass of cold water in the face to go along with the literal cold water that Jenny dumps on them.
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aquagirl
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Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Chapter 34: Daddy Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:15 pm |
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| purple diamond member |
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Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:10 pm Posts: 1410 Location: NW Arkansas
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 that in Jamie's mind. the right time to tell Claire about the Laoghaire situation was when they were farther away from the standing stones. He knows of her tendency to bolt and run when upset. But he should have also known that the closer they got to Lallybroch, the better the chance of encountering someone that would mention Laoghaire and the kids. It should have also been a given that L. would show up to confront him the minute she heard that he was back home with Claire. I was surprised because Jamie usually has better sense and wits about him. Behaving violently toward Claire when caught in his "sins of omission" made a case of bad judgement much worse.
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Pauline
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Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Chapter 34: Daddy Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:29 pm |
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| Clan Fraser |
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Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:19 pm Posts: 1612 Location: Rhode Island
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Do you think that when Jamie makes reference to Claire's leaving him that it wasn't a Freudian slip? It can't be the first time he's thought of that over the years or it wouldn't have come so easily out of his mouth in anger. As Highlandheather points out, it would be natural for these two people to have a load of inner resentment after being apart for all these years and suffering as they did. If anything, the honeymoon that they had in Edinburgh was a farce. This is the stuff that they had to get into and out of their system to make their relationship work again.
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aquagirl
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Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Chapter 34: Daddy Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:11 pm |
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| purple diamond member |
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Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:10 pm Posts: 1410 Location: NW Arkansas
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When Jamie urged Claire to go back through the stones, he was sure that he was not going to live through Culloden and did not want her to face going through a risky childbirth in the 18th century without him. Since he did survive and has now compared notes with Claire 20 years later, he knows that she had a much better time of it than he did. She got to raise their daughter and lived in comfort with a former spouse that she was at least fond of on some level. He endured living in a cave, imprisonment and a miserable arranged marriage. He fathered a son that he can't acknowledge or have a life with. Deep down, Jamie must feel some resentment.
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Lisa SF
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Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Chapter 34: Daddy Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:18 pm |
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| sapphire member |
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:43 pm Posts: 839 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Pauline, I agree that Jamie's comment about Claire leaving him came from deep within him. Yes, he sent her away 20 years ago. Yes, he knows that she and the baby would have suffered and probably died if they'd stayed. But I'm sure his sorrow all those years also contained an element of resentment. In Jamie's mind, Claire went back to her "normal" life, with a loving husband who'd raise his child. I don't think Jamie ever fully considered that Claire's life wouldn't have been happy, until she forced him to see it.
Repoman, your quote about bad news is perfect! If Jamie had calmly told Claire back in Edinburgh about the failed marriage, I think she could have accepted it and helped him find a way to extricate himself from Laoghaire. Of course, that would be assuming that they actually had a moment of calm, which they really didn't.
After all this, I really want to hit Jamie over the head with a frying pan for not getting all his secrets out in the open. Having an illegitimate son is nowhere near as bad as being married to another woman (who incidentally tried to have Claire killed). Jamie, Jamie, Jamie... silly man, tell the truth!
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TrudyJ
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Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Chapter 34: Daddy Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:40 pm |
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| sapphire member |
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:02 pm Posts: 522
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 I definitely understand what all of you have said. So, I humbly add that I may be the only one who was not completely angry with Jamie!!! He does not usually act or react based on emotions, but in this instance I believe he was acting based purely on an emotional level. I think he was so afraid of losing Claire again. He did have several opportunities to "come clean", but besides being married to Laoghaire he had a whole host of other transgressions to tell Claire. IMO he was afraid Claire would not want him when she found out about all his involvements. I guess I felt sorry for him...he knew he had to tell her, but he just didn't know how. Maybe he told her the "lesser" offenses first to guage her reaction and was saving Laoghaire for when he was certain she could accept him and wouldn't leave.
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