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 Post subject: VOYAGER: Can you call it ****? Really?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:53 am 
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purple diamond member
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I was just reading this article: https://www.inverse.com/article/24860-o ... 4c456e1db2
which had a paragraph about **** in which it said this: "Season 3 is approaching yet another **** scene, and this will be harder to swallow because — spoiler alert — Jamie is the perpetrator. "

Now, clearly they are referring to that scene between Jamie and Geneva but personally I never interpreted that as a ****. Are there people who did? Sure there is that point where she momentarily asks him to stop and he has already started so he can't - but do you call that a ****? It didn't seem to be portrayed that way in the book - at least to me anyway. What do you think?

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 Post subject: Re: Can you call it ****? Really?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:29 am 
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Diana has addressed this many times on her forums and social media accounts. She feels that Jamie is the one being raped because Geneva has the social power to manipulate him. He momentarily takes over control of the situation when she asks him to stop because he is ready to get it over with. Had he had love and respect for her, and felt she truly had the same for him, he probably would have responded to her request with more sympathy. To him, it was a business transaction and he was doing his part as best he could. She doesn't have any resentment afterwards because she realizes she got exactly what she requested. It's not as if it was a mutually consensual romantic encounter which seems to be how all these writers who cry **** want to paint it to be. Even if it was, it was a different century and the principle that a woman can revoke consent at any time during a sexual encounter would have been considered laughable!

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 Post subject: Re: Can you call it ****? Really?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:24 am 
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That's how I see it too. I've never heard of anyone calling Jamie a rapist for that. It seems a bit far-fetched. So I wonder if there are others who see it differently and if we're going to be seeing more of that as the book moves closer to the TV screen.

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 Post subject: Re: Can you call it ****? Really?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:14 am 
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I have seen a few women on social media who agree with the notion it was **** on Jamie's part. They are usually under 35 and brought up with the idea that "no means no" and that is absolute and unequivocal! They aren't interested in the gray areas of the circumstances!

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 Post subject: Re: Can you call it ****? Really?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:18 pm 
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That is interesting Vala. I guess I am a person who has a hard time in general with the idea that you can see the world in black and white.

Now I have something else that intrigues me: Coming back to this thread I find that the subject matter has been replaced by **** as though it were a foul word! It seems to me that those stars weren't there earlier when I first made the post so I'm confused.

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Donne-moi mille baisers, et puis cent, et puis mille autres, puis une seconde fois cent, puis encore mille autres, puis cent.


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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Can you call it ****? Really?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:51 pm 
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Naomi, that is odd about the asterisks. **** certainly isn't a banned word on our forum. I'll check and see if I can see why, or in any case, will go in and fix it.

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 Post subject: Re: Can you call it ****? Really?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:58 pm 
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I noticed that it was censored in the subject when I replied earlier, but now it is doing it in the posts also. Perhaps there was trouble on another forum with someone using it as a threat. :(

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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Can you call it ****? Really?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:00 pm 
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Very weird. It seems to be hit or miss -- it's not changing it on my posts, but seems to be on some others. I'll check in with the other mods for input.

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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Can you call it ****? Really?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:54 pm 
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The asterisk issue is weird and inconsistent. For example, the word appears above about 5 of the posts as part of the title and the rest have asterisks. We had similar issues on at least one of the chapter threads for the Pawn in Frankincense group read and we don't know why. I checked that we didn't have any of the affected words on our censoring list (we do not), so I can't explain it, but I can say that it might be a freeforums thing, but it is definitely not an OBC thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Can you call it ****? Really?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:44 pm 
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[quote="Naomi"]That is interesting Vala. I guess I am a person who has a hard time in general with the idea that you can see the world in black and white.

Now I have something else that intrigues me: Coming back to this thread I find that the subject matter has been replaced by **** as though it were a foul word! It seems to me that those stars weren't there earlier when I first made the post so I'm confused.


I agree. Part of what I enjoy about Outlander is that it challenges our comfort zones and uses lots of 'grey.' Life isn't always black and white! I enjoy trying to understand the circumstances for each situation.

Also, I strongly feel the word **** should not be censored. We need the use of a full vocabulary to discuss things! Accurate terminology is important, the use of swear words isn't (in my humble opinion, although I do love a well placed swear word).

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 Post subject: Re: Can you call it ****? Really?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:42 pm 
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Yes, that is how I feel and I think it is one of the reasons why I fell in love with the series. It is hard to relate to a black and white view point because non of us are like that in reality. But the major characters of Outlander are very realistic: they are not always good or bad, they do some bad things, they aren't always nice, they make mistakes, they have regrets. It's a very round, if I can use the term, way of looking at things that makes it particularly easy for fans to try to step into the character's shoes and see things from their point of view. I guess that's why it's so infuriating when someone else doesn't make that effort and paints an action in black and white terms based on a superficial reading of it.

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Da mi basia mille, deinde centum, dein mille altera, dein secunda centum, deinde usque altera mille, deinde centum.

Donne-moi mille baisers, et puis cent, et puis mille autres, puis une seconde fois cent, puis encore mille autres, puis cent.


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 Post subject: Re: VOYAGER: Can you call it ****? Really?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:21 pm 
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Clan Fraser
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Hi all - on the asterisk subject -- censorship of words is definitely not the OBC's preference or choice! We've received some info from freeforums (our parent site) that indicates that their policy is to use asterisks to replace certain words. We'll share more info on the topic. Meanwhile, I'm noticing that some posts have the asterisks and some don't. I wonder if it depends on the user's browser and/or device as well? Very odd.

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 Post subject: Re: Can you call it ****? Really?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:28 pm 
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It seems like an odd word to get censored. That's what surprised me in the first place. Also like you said, it's not consistent and I checked my own settings and couldn't find anything to explain it.

In the meantime, I came across another article earlier today discussing this so-called **** and like Vala they said it seemed to be a generational thing with women under 30 feeling that it should be called **** and not understanding how the author herself said that she herself didn't see it that way. Of course, we all know that once it's written many a literary work can be interpreted outside of the writer's original intentions. Someone else called it a case of mutual **** since the girl had black-mailed her way into the situation in the first place.

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Da mi basia mille, deinde centum, dein mille altera, dein secunda centum, deinde usque altera mille, deinde centum.

Donne-moi mille baisers, et puis cent, et puis mille autres, puis une seconde fois cent, puis encore mille autres, puis cent.


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 Post subject: Re: Can you call it ****? Really?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:43 pm 
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When I read that scene for the first time, the word **** never entered my mind and I didn't think, we'll she deserved it, either. Jamie had no choice in the matter. If he had been trying to hurt her or "teach her a lesson" than I might feel different about it but that wasn't the case so no I didn't consider it ****.


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 Post subject: Re: Can you call it ****? Really?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:51 pm 
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I definitely never thought of that scene as ****, at least not on Jamie's part. I actually felt bad for him the whole time. All he was doing is trying to live his life as best he can, and then he was blackmailed into doing something he didn't want to do. Not a nice situation to be in.

I think the issue of **** and abuse in these books is always a very grey area. The beating scene, and certain times when people believe Jamie raped Claire, and just certain quotes where he uses the word seem to have come up a lot more now that the series is getting more attention. Which is strange, because when I first read the books I never had any issue or doubts about any of the scenes. But when other people notice or discuss them now, I find myself wondering if I should have more of an issue with certain moments, you know? I can't remember what I was looking at, whether it was a YouTube video or an article or what, but I was doing something and when I scrolled down to read the comments, so many people were saying that it was an abusive relationship and Jamie is an abusive and horrible person and I was just so taken aback by it! It just goes to show how every situation, whether real or fictional, is interpreted so differently by different people. Whether it be because of life experience or how you were raised or certain situations you've had to deal with in your life.


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