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 Post subject: DUNNETT: PiF: Ch. 28: Constantinople and Thrace
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:49 am 
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Pawn in Frankincense
by Dorothy Dunnett

© 1966 - © 1994

Chapter 28: Constantinople and Thrace

-- Philippa and Míkál leave the tekke in disguising robes and veils to make their way through Constantinople. In a beautifully written passage, Philippa muses over the views of the city they are passing: "Perhaps she had seen Ottoman power at its height at this moment, in this city lying under its uneasy winter, awaiting the flowering season when the sharp lilac-pink of the Judas tree would cloud the gold of the cupolas, and the tulips bar the short grass in the Seraglio gardens, where the gazelles came to graze and later the soft wind would be filled with the smell of carnations."

Arriving at Gaultier's house, Philippa and Míkál find the rest of their party are already gathered. Lymond, Kuzúm, Marthe, Jerott, Gaultier, and Archie had left the French Embassy in small groups and joined Gilles at the house. As Janissaries gather outside, all 9 escape into the cistern on a boat and a raft. "Then they were afloat in the great underground cavern, in the world of green water and dim drowning pillars, the roar of the fall in their ears. To Archie and Lymond himself it was no great surprise, after Jerott’s description. Míkál clearly also knew what to expect. But to Philippa, holding Kuzúm still at her side, it was like the last mysterious station, dark, enchanted and cruel, of some terrible Odyssey."

During the water journey, Philippa learns from Jerott of the planning involved in this escape, but isn't happy that she wasn't told in advance! He also explains, briefly, about the treasure scheme of Gaultier, Marthe, and Gilles. As they're about to enter the tunnels, they hear the pursuers breaking into the house. Then, a long difficult trek through the tunnels: "There was no noise behind. There was no sound ahead, but the slithering crunch of their feet scaling the uneven landslides of limestone and brick, and the sudden rattling fall of small gravel disturbed by their weight."

A cat and mouse game of deception begins as the pursuers get closer, with many twists and turns. While trying to frantically bargain with their pursuers for his treasure, Gaultier is killed by an arrow. Leading the party of pursuers is Onophrion Zitwitz! Lymond begins a lengthy discussion with him about his efforts to undermine their mission, causing as much mayhem, misery and death as possible; he proudly describes how he laced Lymond's food with opium to get him addicted. (Well, finally Jerott & Philippa know the truth!) OZ is clear that he was GRM's man all the time, and has every intention of killing Lymond. Under cover of this expository conversation, Lymond silently signals the party what to do.

Two things happen in quick succession: By insulting OZ' cooking, Lymond lures him close enough to be able to throw a knife, hitting him in the leg at the groin, (severing the artery?); at the same moment, Jerott throws a torch at the wall of straw protecting the ice for the Sultan's sherbets, thus setting the straw on fire. Under cover of the chaos of OZ's men trying to put out the fire, OZ screaming about his injury, and others trying to rescue some of the treasure, Lymond and Jerott lead the rest to safety. As they pass by Onophrion, Lymond's sword deals him the final death blow, through the heart. The melting snow is flooding the tunnels behind them and total collapse is imminent, as they escape up to the surface. It turns out that this strategy was Marthe's idea, even though the treasure would be forever lost.

Míkál's friends have a fishing boat waiting that takes them some way along the coast towards Thrace and then Greece. It's time for Míkál and friends, and Gilles, to go their own way. Lymond's and Míkál's parting words are:
Quote:
Míkál: 'Thy little bride has the soul of a lion.’
‘My little bride has an extraordinary range of erotic Persian poetry,’ said Lymond. ‘What else did you teach her, on that journey from Zakynthos?’
‘Happiness,’ said Míkál simply. ‘She has the key. She will open the door, in due time, herself.’

The farewell between Jerott and Gilles is equally quotable:
Quote:
Gilles, on Marthe: ‘Watch that woman. She’ll eat you alive.’
‘You wouldn’t like to take Marthe?’ said Jerott, with malice. ‘She has Latin.’
‘She has too many ideas,’ Pierre Gilles had replied. ‘Women with ideas are a threat to the civilized world. Get an ichneumon instead. They have only one idea. It’s the same one, but they’re more open-natured about it.’

Modern day map of Turkey and Greece, showing the distance to be traveled: 500 miles now, by paved roads! Imagine what it was like then!

Image

So the six of them travel onward, by boat, wagon, or horse. Jerott becomes quite angry with Lymond's autocratic ways, not believing they could still be pursued. But soon they learn that troops are indeed searching for them, and have even taken all the horses they might have found along the way. Finally they get far enough along to find some horses and food, and ride on, as Jerott apologizes for his earlier doubt. As they travel, Jerott ponders what each of them will do when this is over: Archie to Scotland with Philippa and Kuzúm; Marthe probably back to France; himself... Nantes or St. Mary's... he just couldn't decide; Lymond... who knows?

At one point near Volos, Archie didn't return from a scouting foray, so Jerott goes to find him. Archie's horse had broken a leg, so they come back double on Jerott's horse. They find the sheltering hut burning, and Lymond and Marthe fighting to protect the fleeing Philippa and Kuzúm from a trio of dellys (cutthroats). Jerott joins the fray, and they dispatch two of them as a third escapes, running after Philippa and Kuzúm. He grabs the boy as a hostage, and demands money and Jerott's horse. They agree, and Lymond tells Jerott to grab the boy when the delly mounts the horse. Since the delly is distracted by the money bag mis-tossed at him by Lymond, Jerott is successful in retrieving Kuzúm, but the delly races away on the horse. Lymond runs after him, "Jerott knew only too well why. One man escaped would bring the whole pack down on them." After jumping on the back of the horse and struggling to unseat the delly, Lymond finally has to drag them both off the horse, picking up a rock from the ground and brutally smashing the delly to death.

When Jerott and Archie catch up, blood is everywhere and Lymond is propped against a boulder, exhausted. Jerott is all ready to chastise Lymond for such violence, but Archie, as always, is more perceptive:
Quote:
Archie walked forward slowly and quietly and came to a halt close to Lymond. He said, ‘Ye did that blind? Can ye see now?’
‘No,’ Lymond said.
Jerott’s hands opened. Archie went on, his face hard as teak, ‘Has it happened before? Is there pain?’
‘It happened … after the chess.’

It's clear that this is the end of the journey for Lymond -- he can go no further. The drug must be cut off, and his survival is chancy. Archie has news that a Venetian ship is waiting in Volos for them that will take them to Malta. It's decided that Jerott and Archie will take Philippa and Kuzúm on, since Marthe insists she will take care of Lymond; but in the end, Jerott insists on staying also. Lymond will be taken to a small nearby church and hospital where he can be tended. Archie, Philippa and Kuzúm take the road to the port of Volos. There are no farewells between the unconscious Lymond and Philippa, but as she rides away, she thinks about how her perception of Francis Crawford has changed:
Quote:
She didn’t cry. Her spirit felt scoured; her brain arid as if slaked in quicklime: she remembered with shame the doubts and vanities she had shown over that mariage de convenance whose conveniences, so humiliating at the time, were indeed a matter of life and death to so many, and whose lack of grace concealed a true grace she was only beginning now to discern.
Until their wedding eve in the Seraglio of Topkapi, Francis Crawford had been a friend of her mother’s; an adult whose alien being she did not wish or pretend to interpret.
She could say that no longer. She was his wife in nothing but name: the privacies of his nature were not hers to explore and to analyse: she kept him as far as possible out of her thoughts, and conjecture out of his affairs. Leaving him was less like leaving even the most simple of her friends in Flaw Valleys, and more like losing unfinished a manuscript, beautiful, absorbing and difficult, which she had long wanted to read.
Kuzúm liked the boat.

==========================================

Questions:

If this isn't your first time reading the series, try to remember your first time!

1. Were you surprised that Onophrion Zitwitz was the spy in Lymond's camp? How long do you think Lymond had known?

2. Marthe did a bit of a turnaround by suggesting the melted ice strategy for escape. Given her past behavior, did you find that surprising too?

3. Do you think Míkál is still following Guzel's orders, or acting on his own? What would be her motivation to help Lymond's band escape?

_________________
Mary

“...I prize freedom of the mind above freedom of the body. I claim the right to make my own mistakes and keep quiet about them. ... My life is at your disposal, but not my thoughts.”
Francis Crawford, in Dorothy Dunnett's Game of Kings


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 Post subject: Re: DUNNETT: PiF: Ch. 28: Constantinople and Thrace
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:34 am 
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Clan Fraser
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Thanks for the detailed summary, pagali; you helped to clarify what was going on in the tunnels. I was very confused about how many people were pursuing Lymond's group and where they were all coming from. Thanls also for the map, as I could not find Thrace on the map in the book.

I guess I am a little surprised about Oz being the spy, but not totally, because we had speculated on this, and there was really nobody else; but how sad. And how vile and infuriating to know that he was GRM's man all along. It did seem odd how Oz appeared out of nowhere and attached himself to Lymond in the beginning (and we commented on that). I wonder when Lymond realised Oz was the spy? If he guessed while they were still on the ship, would he not have suspected the cooking was poisoned?

Marthe's behaviour in this chapter is very odd. Perhaps her suggesting that they melt the ice as a means of escape is because she realises that she would never get out alive otherwise, so better to be alive and penniless, than die to procure a treasure. I was surprised that she elected to stay and nurse Lymond - are we about to get a big sibling revelation and heart-to-heart talk (with Jerott as the third wheel)?
And did Jerott stay behind because of Marthe or because of Lymond?

Did the ichneumon escape with them all the way?

I never even thought of Mikal following Guzel's orders, but I imagine that she would want Lymond to escape. After all, a dead Lymond is no use to anybody.

I am so glad we know there are two more books to go. Surely that means Lymond can't expire on the last page of this one.


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 Post subject: Re: DUNNETT: PiF: Ch. 28: Constantinople and Thrace
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:51 pm 
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This is my second time through and I still found listening to the scenes in the tunnels pretty baffling. Thanks for laying things out for us pagali.

And, I can say that Yes, I was surprised that OZ was working for GRM the whole time when I first listened to this book. I didn't have the benefit of in-depth discussions, and he seemed pretty solicitous and devoted to Lymond, so it didn't occur to me then that it was an act. Mind you, most of the book has felt completely new to me this time through and at the beginning when I commented about it seeming like he might have poisoned the dinner since he refused to join Lymond, Philippa and Jerrott, I didn't recall at all that he really had poisoned Lymond's food. :scared:

Marthe has had quite a turnaround. I'm not sure it's as surprising now since she was the one to help Lymond right after the chess game a couple of chapters ago and now she's helping him again. In the tunnels, she was saving her own life as well as the lives of the rest of the group, so that could be seen as self-serving. But, it is overall surprising given how she acted in earlier parts of the book.

Not sure what to think about Mikal and whether he is working for KK, himself or who knows who else. I'm glad he came through in the end, but I just don't feel like I can completely trust him, even though Lymond clearly does since he left Philippa in Mikal's care (again - though it was Archie, not Lymond who put her there earlier).

I kind of loved that Gilles was going to miss Jerrott so much. :bigsmile:

ETA: Oh, and Lymond's blindness was a complete shock the first time through. Not this time, and in the awful chess chapter when he was against the wall at the end and Marthe helped, it occurred to me that he might be blind then, but only because I knew this was coming.


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 Post subject: Re: DUNNETT: PiF: Ch. 28: Constantinople and Thrace
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:05 pm 
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Excellent summary, Pagali of another wild ride of a chapter. :clap: :clap:

We certainly are seeing a different side of Marthe's character than she has show before. And Lymond calling her "an intelligent hermaphrodite *****"(470)! What is that about? Is he saying she has the skills of a man in a woman's body? Is that a compliment or an insult? Knowing Lymond, probably both.

Again we have such a contrast between the two children.
"Last of all Lymond picked his way bearing Kuzum, the little boy's face in his shoulder, the second lamp in his hand"(464). One of the few of Lymond touching Kuzum which makes a strong contrast with Philippa's memory of him holding Khaireddin:"Yet he himself had bestowed one on Khaireddin. It was perhaps, the most disturbing of all the things she had seen him do"(477) which is really saying something.


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 Post subject: Re: DUNNETT: PiF: Ch. 28: Constantinople and Thrace
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:24 pm 
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pagali,

Great summary! You really have made all this utter chaos understandable. Thanks. :bow: :bow: :bow:

1. Were you surprised that Onophrion Zitwitz was the spy in Lymond's camp? How long do you think Lymond had known?
Well, since I'm the one that blew this earlier, I have to admit I thought Dunnett wanted us to figure this out some time ago, but she does such a magnificent job of making us kind of forget about old Ozzie that I almost did forget about him until Lymond asked a couple of chapters ago, "Where is Onophrion." I wonder what story he spun to explain his reappearance at the French Embassy? Just being "sent back there" doesn't hold much water. Lymond had clearly figured out OZ was the traitor and spy, but it was after he had become addicted to the opium. OZ turned out to be the perfect acolyte for Gabriel...all superficial charm and ersatz humility covering a rotten, evil core.

2. Marthe did a bit of a turnaround by suggesting the melted ice strategy for escape. Given her past behavior, did you find that surprising too?
Oh, Marthe. Sheesh. I just don't know what to think of this creature. She did save her own life with the melting ice, but she appears to be at peace with her decision, at least for now. The death of Gaultier almost seems to have freed her from her past. I wonder about that relationship...remember, Marthe says to Philippa that she hated him. She may not have been exaggerating. She did, after all, suggest him for the chess game...What she does next will tell us a great deal about her, I think.

3. Do you think Míkál is still following Guzel's orders, or acting on his own? What would be her motivation to help Lymond's band escape?
I think Míkál is still working for Guzel, but he also is happy to do this because he does care for and about Lymond and Philippa, in particular. Now he can get back to being a merry Geomaler!

I was wondering about what Míkál told Lymond about Philippa. Lymond says,
Quote:
‘What else did you teach her, on that journey from Zakynthos?’ ‘Happiness,’ said Míkál simply. ‘She has the key. She will open the door, in due time, herself.’

Ah...happiness. Míkál told Philippa he wanted to teach her about love and she was more interested in kindness. Has he taught her about happiness? What an odd thing to say at such a sad time as this, at the "the last mysterious station, dark, enchanted and cruel, of some terrible Odyssey."

I'd say Míkál is taking the long view here: he knows Philippa is in anguish and in doubt and in sorrow at the moment, but this will pass. He has watched her grow and mature into a remarkable young woman with a lion's heart. That kind of courage and ability to look life (and death) in the face, coupled with her innate kindness and compassion, are surely the key to the door of life that she will open.

Poor Lymond. He is in a bad way again. He tried to kill himself and was almost executed by the State at the end of GoK. He was almost killed in QP and barely escaped with his life again. At the end of TDK, he has a life and death struggle with Gabriel that ends with the horrible discovery he has a lost child. Now he's an opium addict suffering from intermittent blindness. What next?

_________________
"Look up," said the Master, "and see them. The teaching stars, beyond worship and commonplace tongues. The infinite eyes of innocence." Dorothy Dunnett, Game of Kings


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 Post subject: Re: DUNNETT: PiF: Ch. 28: Constantinople and Thrace
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:06 am 
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As always, an excellent summary, pagali. :bow: :bow: Thank you. Great map, it helps put the arduous escape into perspective.

Considering his physical condition and addiction, Lymond is a trooper, he has given the last ounce of energy to make everyone safe.

Do you think Míkál is still following Guzel's orders, or acting on his own? What would be her motivation to help Lymond's band escape? I believe he is following the last of Güzel's orders. Although it's not truly obvious, Lymond and KK made a pact of sorts back in Djerba. Lymond will not join Güzel in any of her projects -- if he survives the withdrawal -- unless everyone in his party is safely away.

I also agree with Clewless that Mikál is fond of FC and Philippa for different reasons, of course, he is happy to help them escape -- this time. I love that he emphasizes to Lymond "Thy little bride has the soul of a lion." I know this will play out at some future point.

On a side note, we discussed earlier in the book that Lymond didn't know about The Dhammapada, but in the conversation with Mikál, he seems to understand the quote. He must have been somewhat familiar with The Buddha.

The lines pagali quoted at the end of her summary are pivotal, imo. Philippa's remarkable turnaround with Lymond, the bittersweet note in her thoughts read like a powerful foreshadow. Leaving him was less like leaving even the most simple of her friends in Flaw Valleys, and more like losing unfinished a manuscript, beautiful, absorbing and difficult, which she had long wanted to read.

She had long wanted to read. What a stunning revelation to us all.

_________________
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But the wine had been too strong for her, as it had for the others; and like the others she had stepped from the safe shores of friendship. She stood now in another country, whose sun burned and whose air was too rare for her breathing. Checkmate


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 Post subject: Re: DUNNETT: PiF: Ch. 28: Constantinople and Thrace
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:35 pm 
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Pagali, how could you translate all that tunnels mess into comprehensible text!! I think I had to read the whole part three or four times until I (barely) understood its meaning. Congratulations on your skill!!
Questions...
Oddly, in my first read, I knew pretty soon OZ was the traitor, but couldn't understand why nobody acknowledged it, I mean, I didn't guess it, I thought it was actually said so. And now on this second read, still can't see clearly why Lymond kept quiet about it. He couldn't not have known. Maybe he was using him as counter spy? Or prefered to keep an open door to Gabriel? But by no hinting his colleages he put them in further danger. Of course he didn't know
oz was feeding him opium until he left the embassy.

Marthe: during my first read I liked Marthe more than I do while re reading. Here we see her developing a warm feeling for her brother who she's learning to respect. She was witness of the chess game, and being so alike his brother, maybe understood about it more than anyone else.

Mikal must still be working for guzel, since we know now that both of them were working for Lymond and not against him. That he is fond of Lymond we also know. And Lymond of him. And both of Philippa!

I agree with the last quote about the unfinished manuscript. Speak volumes!!

_________________
"Think, Yunitsa" he said abruptly (Checkmate)


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 Post subject: Re: DUNNETT: PiF: Ch. 28: Constantinople and Thrace
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:28 pm 
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Clan Fraser
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Pagali, great summary. :bow: :bow: :bow: I enjoyed the map as well.

[quote="pagali"]Questions:

If this isn't your first time reading the series, try to remember your first time!

1. Were you surprised that Onophrion Zitwitz was the spy in Lymond's camp? How long do you think Lymond had known?
2. Marthe did a bit of a turnaround by suggesting the melted ice strategy for escape. Given her past behavior, did you find that surprising too?

3. Do you think Míkál is still following Guzel's orders, or acting on his own? What would be her motivation to help Lymond's band escape?

1. I wasn't surprised it was OZ. I was looking for someone other than what he appeared to be. After being misled by Gabriel, I looked for the least obvious, the one too devoted to be true. The suspicion came early after Baden when the effigy was flung forward. I didn't recall anyone who would have done that with intent but for Onophrion, who seemed too kind, too devoted, and too upset about Salablanca having access to Lymond's belongings and attire.
I'm not sure when Lymond figured it out. Our dear hero could not grasp it at all how he could have been addicted without knowing it. Mikal seemed to have to spell it out. Maybe Lymond thought it was Gaultier who was causing accidents.

2. I agree with others who thought that Marthe helped in order to preserve her own life. But she also softened after seeing Lymond's self sacrifice. That had to soften her heart and restore some faith in the goodness of others. Our hero is so full of goodness how could he not inspire it in others.

3. Mikal: I have to leave that to the experts. I should think he is following orders until al the folks are safely sent on their way. It's easier for Mikal to be doing good for the band of friends since Mikal's own actions do not contradict KK's wishes.
[quote="LynnL"]And Lymond calling her "an intelligent hermaphrodite *****"(470)! What is that about? Is he saying she has the skills of a man in a woman's body? Is that a compliment or an insult? Knowing Lymond, probably both.That line caught my eye as well. :agree: Lymond is seeing both aspects of male and female in Marthe. The remark is ambivalent, imo, being both a compliment and an insult at the same time, I'd say. Could Lymond be referring to her cross-dressing as well? She's a woman who has gone in the outward dress of a boy when out on her own.
[quote="DLT"]I am so glad we know there are two more books to go. Surely that means Lymond can't expire on the last page of this one.True. Since we have two more books in this series, we have some surety that Lymond survives beyond this one. I can't imagine the added torture of having to wait for the next one. [quote="pagali"]Quote:
Míkál: 'Thy little bride has the soul of a lion.’
‘My little bride has an extraordinary range of erotic Persian poetry,’ said Lymond. ‘What else did you teach her, on that journey from Zakynthos?’
‘Happiness,’ said Míkál simply. ‘She has the key. She will open the door, in due time, herself.’
I think this might have been my favorite scene in this chapter. I do believe Lymond is surprised, amused and curious about the extent of Philippa's intellectual acquisitions. I loved Mikal's response to Lymond's question.
_________________
"'I wish to God,' said Gideon with mild exasperation, 'that you'd talk--just once--in prose like other people.'"
--Game of Kings


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 Post subject: Re: DUNNETT: PiF: Ch. 28: Constantinople and Thrace
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:23 am 
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Fascinating chapter this one - thanks for the summary Pagali. I am trying to remember this as a first-time reader, and I was utterly stunned about OZ and probably the subtleties of Marthe's assistance in the escape passed me by as well. Is there anyone on the board who had to wait two years for the next book to come out, back in the 70s? It would have been torture! At least most of us could just grab the next one from the bookstore or the library.

This time through, it struck me how perilous this escape is and how beautifully DD has paced it out. Running and hiding through the cisterns, running and hiding through the Turkish countryside. 'Discussions began and ended with hour-to-hour problems'. It's almost a cat and mouse trek through hostile territory .. the money is running out, Lymond desperately ill, Phillipa lugging a toddler with her. Those four little words at the end of the chapter really throw the readers a little glimmer of light into some pretty dark circumstance.

LynnL, I also noted the rare reference to Lymond holding Kuzum. Who can blame him - if he believes his decisions have killed his own child and he's not much interested in surviving, creating a bond with this child wouldn't be high on Lymond's list.

lormza wrote:
Here we see her developing a warm feeling for her brother who she's learning to respect. She was witness of the chess game, and being so alike his brother, maybe understood about it more than anyone else.
My thinking too lormaza. I was quite sucked in, as was Jerott, to believing that Marthe and Lymond had gone back to their bickering, but it turns out it was more subterfuge to aid their escape. Philippa is right - Marthe wants to help, even though she's lost her fortune and potential for independence with it.
audiobooklover wrote:
And, I can say that Yes, I was surprised that OZ was working for GRM the whole time when I first listened to this book.
That's a' me too'. Although when you know, it's impossible not to pick up on all the fantastic little clues that DD left us, as well as sometime tucking him away in the background as Clewless points out. It's a bit like Randy Bell .. in fact, it's a lot like Randy Bell! Pagali can probably pinpoint the moment when Lymond figured it out (I think it was four or five chapters back) but I think it took a surprisingly long time. He openly accused GG earlier, back on the Dauphine.

Kuzum liked the boat, but I liked the last glimpse of the ichneumon! When Gilles says 'they only have one idea', does anyone know what it is? Finding someone to feed them? Finding a mate?

DLT, good point about Jerott staying. I think he's staying for Lymond .. how would Marthe be able to do the necessary and exit Volos if Lymond dies during withdrawal? They all seem so exhausted and empty in this chapter that any romantic inclinations must be shrivelled.

The reference 'Perhaps she had seen Ottoman power at its height at this moment' reminded me that some of you might be interested in a book I've spotted by John Julius Norwich called 'Four Princes; Henry VIII, Francis I, Charles V & Sulieman the Magnificent'.


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 Post subject: Re: DUNNETT: PiF: Ch. 28: Constantinople and Thrace
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:50 am 
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kiwijo wrote:
Pagali can probably pinpoint the moment when Lymond figured it out (I think it was four or five chapters back) but I think it took a surprisingly long time. He openly accused GG earlier, back on the Dauphine.

Yes, without going into research, I think the moment he knew for sure was when Mikal explained that he must have been getting the opium through his food (back in the "Meddah" chapter). Before that he might have had his suspicions, but i think Gaultier was leading the list of suspects until then. Or maybe even Marthe, since her actions were so totally self-involved.
kiwijo wrote:
Kuzum liked the boat, but I liked the last glimpse of the ichneumon! When Gilles says 'they only have one idea', does anyone know what it is? Finding someone to feed them? Finding a mate?

Well.. I'll take a guess at this one. If it's true, as was said somewhere in the book, that they're similar to cats, then I know what they want! Total domination! :mischief: I've also seen it said that cats were gods in ancient Egypt, and they haven't forgotten it! Anybody who thinks they're the boss in a home with a cat (or an ichneumon, I'm sure!) is just kidding themselves.
:lol:

_________________
Mary

“...I prize freedom of the mind above freedom of the body. I claim the right to make my own mistakes and keep quiet about them. ... My life is at your disposal, but not my thoughts.”
Francis Crawford, in Dorothy Dunnett's Game of Kings


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 Post subject: Re: DUNNETT: PiF: Ch. 28: Constantinople and Thrace
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:24 am 
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kiwijo asked
Quote:
When Gilles says 'they only have one idea', does anyone know what it is? Finding someone to feed them? Finding a mate?

I love pagali's answer. Mine is similar: Their one idea is ME. ME. ME. ME.

The cat analogy is perfect! My cat is right this minute preeting and mewing and whining and dashing around because he wants food and I want to type this. As beautiful and charming and smart as he is, just like Marthe, his one idea is HIM. He wants what he wants when he wants it.

So Gilles' answer to Freud's question (What do women want?) is, They want their own way. At least that's what Gilles thinks.

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"Look up," said the Master, "and see them. The teaching stars, beyond worship and commonplace tongues. The infinite eyes of innocence." Dorothy Dunnett, Game of Kings


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 Post subject: Re: DUNNETT: PiF: Ch. 28: Constantinople and Thrace
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:58 pm 
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Clan Fraser

Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:09 pm
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NigheanDubh wrote:
Míkál: 'Thy little bride has the soul of a lion.’
‘My little bride has an extraordinary range of erotic Persian poetry,’ said Lymond. ‘What else did you teach her, on that journey from Zakynthos?’


Two of my favorite quotes too, AC and ND. :bigsmile: Philippa and her exploits are amazing.

In re cats I like this quote: Dogs have owners and cats have staff. :rotfl:


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 Post subject: Re: DUNNETT: PiF: Ch. 28: Constantinople and Thrace
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:02 pm 
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sapphire member

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LynnL wrote:

In re cats I like this quote: Dogs have owners and cats have staff. :rotfl:


:rotfl: :rotfl:

Yes! Our cat is nice enough to let us live with him and serve him. I think Lymond isn't the only sibling that is cat-like!

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"Look up," said the Master, "and see them. The teaching stars, beyond worship and commonplace tongues. The infinite eyes of innocence." Dorothy Dunnett, Game of Kings


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 Post subject: Re: DUNNETT: PiF: Ch. 28: Constantinople and Thrace
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:07 pm 
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sapphire member
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LynnL wrote:
In re cats I like this quote: Dogs have owners and cats have staff. :rotfl:


Yes, I like that one too! Since I got a new 1-yr-old shelter cat a couple of months ago, I hang out a lot at thecatsite.com . Common usage there is to call us not "owners" but "guardians" of our cat(s).

:oops!: Sorry for the off-topic stuff!

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Mary

“...I prize freedom of the mind above freedom of the body. I claim the right to make my own mistakes and keep quiet about them. ... My life is at your disposal, but not my thoughts.”
Francis Crawford, in Dorothy Dunnett's Game of Kings


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 Post subject: Re: DUNNETT: PiF: Ch. 28: Constantinople and Thrace
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:43 pm 
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emerald member

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Location: Mendoza, Mendoza, Argentina
Today is animal's day, at least here in my country (a very festive day indeed for pets!), so happy day for your lovely cats! Love them but I'm not allowed to have one!

Enviado desde mi BLU DASH X mediante Tapatalk

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