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 Post subject: CLASSIC READ: One Hundred Years of Solitude-EXTRA: Essay#1
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:27 pm 
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Clan Fraser
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If you have not read this novel, you may find spoilers:

As promised, here is an extra: an excerpt from Mario Vargas Llosa. I have copied the original and given its Spanish translation.
Taken from: Gabriel García Márquez. Cien años de soldedad. Edición Conmemorativa. Real Academia Española. Asociación de Academias de la Lengua Española.

Mario Vargas Llosa: "Cien Años de Soledad. Realidad total, novela total"
Mario Vargas Llosa writes: “…una novela total sobretodo porque pone en práctica el utópico designio de todo suplantador de Dios: describir una realidad total, enfrentar a la real una imagen que es su expresión y negación.” (p. xxvi)

“Se trata de una novela total por su materia, en la medida en que describe un mundo cerrado, desde su nacimiento hasta su muerte y en todos los órdenes que lo componen—el individuo y el colectivo, el legendario y el histórco, el cotidiano y el mítico..." (p. xxvi)

Translation (which is mine):
Mario Vargas Llosa: One Hundred Years of Solitude. A Total Reality, A Total Novel.
Mario Vargas Llosa writes that OHYoS is : “a complete novel, principally because it puts into practice the utopian design of all that supplants God: which describes a complete reality and confronts that reality with an image that expresses and negates it.

“It’s about a complete novel which describes a closed world, from its incipience to its death and all the orders that compose it—the individual and the collective, the legendary and the historical, the mundane and the mythical..."

From this small excerpt, what do you think of Mario Vargas Llosa's impression of the novel? Would you agree or disagree with him? Thoughts? I realize it is a small part of the essay, which is rather lengthy. I'm still in the process of reading it.

For anyone who reads Spanish, the link to the essay in its entirety is:
here

Feel free to contribute from the essay. If you do, please provide the Spanish, following my example, with your translation. Thank you.

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"'I wish to God,' said Gideon with mild exasperation, 'that you'd talk--just once--in prose like other people.'"
--Game of Kings


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 Post subject: Re: CLASSIC READ: One Hundred Years of Solitude-EXTRA: Essa
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:47 am 
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Clan Fraser
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Yikes - the essay is 34 pages - it will take me a while to read it. For now, I will just comment on the above. It is interesting to read that GGM says it is a novel describing a closed world, with orders such as the individual and the collective. Throughout the story we read about individual people and we also read about the town as a whole or the politicians or the banana company, as a collective body.
Poor Fernanda. Nobody told her that God had been supplanted.


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 Post subject: Re: CLASSIC READ: One Hundred Years of Solitude-EXTRA: Essa
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:53 am 
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purple diamond member
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I never thought of it as a closed world. It makes it sound sort of like a fish bowl.

Poor Fernanda is right!! Lol!

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Donne-moi mille baisers, et puis cent, et puis mille autres, puis une seconde fois cent, puis encore mille autres, puis cent.


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 Post subject: Re: CLASSIC READ: One Hundred Years of Solitude-EXTRA: Essa
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:11 pm 
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Interesting. Now that he's said it, it's so obvious. It's like the Little Prince's world. It has it own time line that does not correspond with that of the outside world, for instance. It has it's own normalcy and reality.


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 Post subject: Re: CLASSIC READ: One Hundred Years of Solitude-EXTRA: Essa
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:58 am 
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Well from that point of view one could contend that any story with an element of the imaginary or fantasy exists in its own world. On that line, Jamie and Claire also exist in a different parallel world where time travel is possible thus explaining why none of us have ever found a way through a stone circle.

But I agree that the closed world idea works for Macondo. There was a mention somewhere, I forget where, of reflecting mirror walls that gave the impression that the town was self contained and invisible to the outside.

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Da mi basia mille, deinde centum, dein mille altera, dein secunda centum, deinde usque altera mille, deinde centum.

Donne-moi mille baisers, et puis cent, et puis mille autres, puis une seconde fois cent, puis encore mille autres, puis cent.


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 Post subject: Re: CLASSIC READ: One Hundred Years of Solitude-EXTRA: Essa
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:55 am 
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Clan Fraser
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Naomi wrote:
There was a mention somewhere, I forget where, of reflecting mirror walls that gave the impression that the town was self contained and invisible to the outside.
Vargas Llosas puts it exquisitely. Here comes a stupendous passage (and my not so stupendous translation will follow):

Cien años de soledad narra un mundo en sus dos dimensiones: la vertical (el tiempo de su historia) y la horizontal (los planos de la realidad). En términos estrictamente numéricos, esta empresa total era utópica: el genio del autor está en haber encontrado un eje o núcleo, de dimensiones apresables por una estructura narrativa, en el cual se refleja, como un espejo, lo individual y lo colectivo, las personas concretas y la sociedad entera, esa abstracción. Ese eje o núcleo es una familia, institución que está en medio camino del individuo y de la comunidad. La historia total de Macondo se refracta--como la vida de un cuerpo en el corazón--en ese órgano vital de Macondo que es la estirpe de los Buendía: ambas entidades nacen, florecen y mueren juntas entrecruzándose sus destinos en todas las etapas de la historia común. (pp. xxviii -xxix)

OHYoS narrates a world in its two dimensions: the vertical (its historical flow of time) and the horizontal (its planes of reality.) In very strict numerical terms, this undertaking was utopian: the genius of the author is in his having found an axis, or nucleus, of dimensions which can be understood through narrative structure, in which that abstraction is reflected, like a mirror, in the individual and the collective, the people and its society. That axis, or nucleus, is a family, an institution which lies between the individual and the community. The complete history of Macondo is refracted--as the life of a body's heart*--in that vital organ of Macondo which is the lineage of the Buendías: both entities are born, bloom and die together, their destinies crossing at all stages of their common history.

*The comment on the heart reminds me of the video I posted earlier. I had not read this, but Calle 13 members must have, as the heart beating is featured in their song "Latinoamérica." They mention "El amor en el tiempo de cholera" (Love in the Time of Cholera.) I've reposted the link if you want to look at it again after reading OHYoS.
Latinoamérica
Here is the English translation of the song, copied and pasted from the site. There are some errors. I left the song as it was posted on the site. The bold and color editing I did.

Artist: Calle 13
Featuring artist: Totó la Momposina, Susana Baca, Maria Rita
Album: Entren Los Que Quieran (2010)
Song: Latinoamérica
Translations: English #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, French, Greek, Hebrew, Italian, Korean, Russian #1, #2, Serbian, Turkish
Requests: Portuguese

from translation from "lyricstranslate"
English translation
Latinoamérica

I am
I am what that they left
I'm all about what that was stolen.
A village hidden on the peak,
My skin is from leather that's why it stands any weather.
I'm a factory of smoke,
A peasant working hand for your consumption
Cold Front in the middle of summer,
Love in the Time of Cholera, my brother.
The sun that is born and the day that dies,
with the best evenings.
I am developing raw,
a political speech without saliva.
The most beautiful faces I've met,
I'm the photograph of a missing person.
I'm the blood in your veins,
I'm a piece of land that is worth it.
I'm a basket with beans,
I'm Maradona against England scoring 2 goals.
I'm what that holds my flag,
the backbone of the planet is my Andes.
I'm what that my father taught me,
Who doesn't love his fatherland don't love his mother.
I'm Latin America,
People without legs but can walk

You can't buy the wind.
You can't buy the sun.
You can't buy the rain.
You can't buy the heat.
You can't buy the clouds.
You can't buy the colors.
You can't buy my happiness.
You can't buy my pains.

I have the lakes, I have the rivers.
I have my teethes for when I smile.
The snow that puts make up on my mountains.
I have the sol that dries me and the rain that wash me
*A desert intoxicated with beautiful drinks of pulque
To sing with the coyotes is all that I need.
I have my lungs breathing clear blue.
The height that suffocates.
I'm the teethes that chew the Coca.
*The autumn with its dropping leaves
The lines written under the starry night.
A wineyard filled with grapes.
A sugar cane plantation under the Cuban sun.
I'm the Caribbean Sea watching over the houses,
Doing rituals of holy water.
The wind that combs my hair.
I'm all the saints that hangs from my neck.
The juice of my struggle is not artificial,
Because the fertilizer of my land is natural.

You can't buy the wind.
You can't buy the sun.
You can't buy the rain.
You can't buy the heat.
You can't buy the clouds.
You can't buy the colors.
You can't buy my happiness.
You can't buy my pains.
(from purtuguese)
You can't buy the wind.
You can't buy the sun.
You can't buy the rain.
You can't buy the heat.
You can't buy the clouds.
You can't buy the colors.
You can't buy my happiness.
You can't buy my sadness.

You can't buy the sun.
You can't buy the rain.
(we are drawing the way, we are walking)
You can't buy my life.
MY LAND IS NOT FOR SALE.

Working hard but with pride,
Here we share, what's mine is yours.
These people can't be drawn with big waves.
And if it collapsed I'll rebuilt it.
*neither blink when I see you.
So that you'll remember my surname.
Operation Condor is invading my nest.
I forgive but I'll never forget!

(we are walking)
The struggle breathes here.
(we are walking)
I sing because it sounds.

Here we are standing.
Long live Latin America.

You can't buy my life.

_________________
"'I wish to God,' said Gideon with mild exasperation, 'that you'd talk--just once--in prose like other people.'"
--Game of Kings


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 Post subject: Re: CLASSIC READ: One Hundred Years of Solitude-EXTRA: Essa
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:29 am 
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Clan Fraser
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I needed to double post to isolate another thought:

Naomi wrote:
I never thought of it as a closed world. It makes it sound sort of like a fish bowl.

Naomi, the comment about Macondo being a fish bowl just resonated with me...I didn't see the connection until I re-read everyone's posts and your reference just gleamed off the page: Aureliano (the first of many to come) makes the fish. There must be a connection with the manufacturing of the little fish and the number dwindling as time goes by. (Forgive me if this idea was already mentioned. It must have resided in my subconscious.)
What did that mean for GGM in reference to the individual versus society? What did it mean in reference to Latinoamérica and its indigenous societies? vs. the rest of the world? Most especially, Mr. Brown and who/what he represents and from where!?

I'm slowly reading Mario Vargas Llosa's and will post as I go. Please share your thoughts.

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"'I wish to God,' said Gideon with mild exasperation, 'that you'd talk--just once--in prose like other people.'"
--Game of Kings


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 Post subject: Re: CLASSIC READ: One Hundred Years of Solitude-EXTRA: Essa
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:17 pm 
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ND, I really liked the spanish extract you gave us and your translation. I was able to understand most of the spanish original thanks to my limited knowledge of spanish and my far better knowledge of french! It was very interesting.
Who is Calle 13?
As for the fishbowl comment - when I wrote that I wasn't even thinking about those goldfishes - the connection is amazing! What I was thinking of is the impression that I have that the fish can't see outside of their fishbowls because of the reflective quality of the water in the bowl - again it was more about the reflections, not being able to see in and not being able to see out.

We need someone else, Demetria maybe? who is more knowledgeable than I am about Latin American society and history to comment on that aspect of the interpretation - but I am sure that you are completely right - there are many parts which are clearly comments on that.

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Da mi basia mille, deinde centum, dein mille altera, dein secunda centum, deinde usque altera mille, deinde centum.

Donne-moi mille baisers, et puis cent, et puis mille autres, puis une seconde fois cent, puis encore mille autres, puis cent.


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 Post subject: Re: CLASSIC READ: One Hundred Years of Solitude-EXTRA: Essa
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:13 pm 
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Clan Fraser
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Thanks Naomi.
Yes, I got your connection and then I went somewhere else with it. :lol: In re-reading your post, the thought of the fish came to me.
It's also difficult to pinpoint aspects of what is the Latino view of the world and GGM's own world view. There are a number of things that came from his own childhood. I had posted a video of him being interviewed. I'm not sure where/which chapter thread I put it in. But he talks about the statues in the house where he grew up, and how he was afraid of them. His elders also threatened him with dead people being in a room. This would explain the ghosts in the house. Since he lived with women mostly (I imagine Fernanda may have been a conglomerate (is that the word I want?) of those women.

The other aspect of the book is how William Faulkner influenced GGM. As Faulkner, GGM creates a self contained world.
Unfortunately, being a graduate student immersed in hispanista studies, in particular, medieval and renaissance studies, I did not read much of Faulkner, other than some of his excellent short stories and his more popular As I Lay Dying. Does he mention a fishbowl? Again, I don't know. I have a few of WF's books on the shelf. Even though he is as challenging as GGM, I strongly feel that we should read at least one of his books.

Naomi wrote:
We need someone else, Demetria maybe? who is more knowledgeable than I am about Latin American society and history to comment on that aspect of the interpretation

I hope Demetria shows up so that she can give us her view. Anam-Charaid's pov would also be most helpful. Each person contributes something to arrive at a clearer view of this fascinating book and its author.
I'll pm Demetria and ask Anam-Charaid. (Anam-Charaid is of Cuban descent. She and her sister have authored books whose characters' ancestry is Spanish and Cuban.)

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"'I wish to God,' said Gideon with mild exasperation, 'that you'd talk--just once--in prose like other people.'"
--Game of Kings


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 Post subject: Re: CLASSIC READ: One Hundred Years of Solitude-EXTRA: Essa
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:26 pm 
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Oh how interesting that you all share that heritage.

I read several of Faulkner's books when I was younger. I was a big fan of them. I especially liked the books that centered around his imaginary town. No, I don't recall any references to fish bowls or anything else that would make the town seemed like a self contained world. You rather get the impression that in Faulkner's world the characters could drive over to the nearest large city if they actually wanted to - only they don't ever think of it. The isolation that they experience is more mental and cultural than symbolic.

Back when I was taking that translation course to prepare for my teaching exam the teacher gave us a passage from a Faulkner short story to translate! Wow was that ever difficult! The French students went nuts over it. They had a hard enough time figuring out what it said in the first place, never mind translating it!

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Da mi basia mille, deinde centum, dein mille altera, dein secunda centum, deinde usque altera mille, deinde centum.

Donne-moi mille baisers, et puis cent, et puis mille autres, puis une seconde fois cent, puis encore mille autres, puis cent.


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 Post subject: Re: CLASSIC READ: One Hundred Years of Solitude-EXTRA: Essa
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:48 pm 
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Clan Fraser
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Naomi wrote:
Oh how interesting that you all share that heritage.

There is some connection. My background is mostly Italian, but after doing "23 and me" genetic testiing, I discovered connection to Spain, Northern Africa, other parts of Southern Europe and the near east. I always thought I was just Italian. I'm 79% Italian and bits of everything else from the Mediterranean. (No French, though.)
Naomi wrote:
No, I don't recall any references to fish bowls or anything else that would make the town seemed like a self contained world. You rather get the impression that in Faulkner's world the characters could drive over to the nearest large city if they actually wanted to - only they don't ever think of it. The isolation that they experience is more mental and cultural than symbolic.
Okay. Thanks for that on Faulkner. I remember reading As I Lay Dying. Pretty good read. I read it when I was older. "A Rose for Emily" was a short story I read in 10th grade and it left quite an impression on me.

Naomi wrote:
Back when I was taking that translation course to prepare for my teaching exam the teacher gave us a passage from a Faulkner short story to translate! Wow was that ever difficult! The French students went nuts over it. They had a hard enough time figuring out what it said in the first place, never mind translating it!
It is challenging, but great satisfaction after having read him. Proust is another one I'd like to tackle. Anyway, if we are going to read such challenging books, I think the group read is the best way to go. Everyone puts in a perspective.

Over in the Dorothy Dunnett forum, we are tackling classics from the later 1500's and before. This we are doing in conjunction with our reading of The Lymond Chronicles.

Anyway, back to the topic, I would imagine the idea of fish bowl, may be something that GGM, being a cosmopolitan journalist was aware of. It might be interesting to discover when the concept came up.

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"'I wish to God,' said Gideon with mild exasperation, 'that you'd talk--just once--in prose like other people.'"
--Game of Kings


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 Post subject: Re: CLASSIC READ: One Hundred Years of Solitude-EXTRA: Essa
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:22 am 
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France isn't all that mediterreanean for the most part if you think about it. In the south, yes, obviously, but in the northern part people mostly have a more germanic heritage. You can tell by people's appearance. My mother sent in for some genetic testing and to our surprise found out that we are 100% Ashkenazi. Quite surprising considering that our family traces its roots back to four eastern european countries: Hungary, Austria, Romania and Belorussia - but all of those people had one thing in common!

As far as classics to tackle, Proust is super hard. I tried to read his famous Remembrance of things past once. I struggled my way up to around page 90 when there was the famous "madeleine" scene where he starts remembering, and then I gave up altogether. I'm not sure that I'd be up to tackle that even in a group read. I'd be up for a Faulkner book because I like him but I'm not sure that choice would be all that popular. I noticed that a lot of people desisted for this book cause of its difficulty. I do like the idea though of our having branched out of classic English lit for a bit. I think that Ivanhoe is the next one so it will be a return to source but perhaps with the next one after it something more modern like Faulkner could be suggested. Virginia Woolf might also be interesting - along the lines of a modernist writer.

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Da mi basia mille, deinde centum, dein mille altera, dein secunda centum, deinde usque altera mille, deinde centum.

Donne-moi mille baisers, et puis cent, et puis mille autres, puis une seconde fois cent, puis encore mille autres, puis cent.


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 Post subject: Re: CLASSIC READ: One Hundred Years of Solitude-EXTRA: Essa
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:27 am 
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Clan Fraser
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Oh my gosh, I am also a tiny percent Ashkenazi. (My friend thought she was 100% Italian and discovered she too was quite a percentage Ashkenazi.) There was a group in Southern Italy, where I'm from, during the middle ages.
I'm convinced my genetic background explains why I love Spanish literature and language, have an affinity for African, near and middle Eastern music.
Amazing to discover, we are really all one body. I love that. We are all inter-related.

Me too I started the same Proust and I stopped because it was challenging and I just didn't have the time to study it--I haven't given up just yet. I want to tackle it again. I have a friend who loves Proust and I will be tapping her.
Hmm, Naomi, you're probably right about Faulkner, but having finished OHYoS, maybe folks might be open to it. Faulkner is a master and well worth the effort. Very satisfying having completed more challenging reading.

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"'I wish to God,' said Gideon with mild exasperation, 'that you'd talk--just once--in prose like other people.'"
--Game of Kings


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 Post subject: Re: CLASSIC READ: One Hundred Years of Solitude-EXTRA: Essa
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:32 am 
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Well, I will give some thought to Faulkner and maybe select a work that I haven't read yet (which will unfortunately rule out As I Lay Dying since I've read it twice) or at least another very famous work and suggest it to you for a future vote, then we can put up the Proust work too and see how many people are up for that. I think there is also something to be said for the idea of attacking classics outside of the Anglo-American group - maybe alternating between them: we did English with North and South and Jane Austen, then American with Hemingway, Hispanic with this one and now we're moving back to English with Ivanhoe.

By the way, you are really mixed. I think the biggest surprise from my mother's test was how un-mixed she was (and by extension me too - my parents were cousins actually so most of my mother's results apply to my father too.) I guess the norm is to be a fairly good mix but my ex-husband also can trace all of his heritage to a single African tribe, the Bakugni (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kugnis)

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Da mi basia mille, deinde centum, dein mille altera, dein secunda centum, deinde usque altera mille, deinde centum.

Donne-moi mille baisers, et puis cent, et puis mille autres, puis une seconde fois cent, puis encore mille autres, puis cent.


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 Post subject: Re: CLASSIC READ: One Hundred Years of Solitude-EXTRA: Essa
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:28 pm 
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Very cool Naomi. Merci! Thank you for the link. Ma français non est pas mal. I was able to read it. (Meh, I have some brushing up to do. ) Excellent video put on by PBS which I loved: Africa's Great Civilizations. When I chanced upon this on my local public broadcasting station I was reading a book in the Niccolò series. The characters were in Timbuktu. It was wonderful and it was showing a map of places I'd read in that book. Tremendous amount of learning and scholarship in subsaharan Africa.

Yes, I agree the classics should go around the globe. I love that idea. We will. After Ivanhoe we may do Middlemarch. Those were runners up.
I'd love to do Don Quijote.

I know GGM was difficult but we did it! I'm hoping we get further perspective on the fish bowl idea. People have been away. There is a lull in the summer.

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--Game of Kings


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