Quagmire, Chapter 19

Jamie approaches the monastery. The scene is peaceful, but Jamie is not. He is irritated with both John and Quinn and he is worried about the forthcoming dealings with Shively. He is also aware of the cup and realizes that he must make a decision to ask the abbot what he knows.

[color=#0000FF]How strange, the cup is located at the very same place that Jamie must go to see about the poem! Do you think Quinn knew they would end up here?
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Jamie's first sighting of the Abbot makes him smile. The abbot is a leprechaun. Abbot Michael greats Jamie warmly and welcomes him to the monastery. He is a friend of Jamie’s uncle Alexander and asks Jamie of his family and his wife. Jamie tells the abbot he lost his wife in the rising. Jamie is visibly effected by his inquiry. The abbot offers whiskey and proceeds to ramble on about the weather and what was for dinner.

A leprechaun? http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leprechaun . Do you think he is serious about the Abbot's identity or making a joke abou his appearance. Follow the link to find out more about leprechauns.

Jamie asks the abbot for his opinion of the letter. As Abbot Michael looks at the letter, Jamie takes time to view his surroundings. The room reminds Jamie of Hal’s library and workroom. The books are clearly used. Jamie is very interested in the type of research the abbot is doing.

The abbot upon completing the letter, asks Jamie questions about where he got it and if he understands the references to the tithe. This refers to the tithe the fairies must sacrifice to hell every seven years.
Abbot Michael says that he is sure the poem is modern. He abruptly changes the subject, noticing Jamie’s interest of a beetle in one of the cases. A. Michael shows Jamie some of his other treasures including a hand of a human. The abbot explains that the monks found a preserved body in the bog. The person appears to have been left there some time ago. Jamie feels a presence behind him. The abbot goes on to explain the man has been killed three fold; knocked in the head strangled and garroted. With the man where found a cup, a sword hilt, and what appears to be an ancient horn. There is much speculation to the origin of the man and in the end Michael has the body buried because he does not want the local people to rally to the man’s remains. The monastery is in a very precarious relationship and Michael feels that the English could take action if the find where to be a rally point of rebellion. Abbot Michael asks Jamie if he would like to see the cup. Jamie is surprised that the abbot has hidden the cup in the vegetable cellar. The cup is wooden with jewels imbedded around the rim. Jamie has another strong sense of a presence, which this time Michael notices, and questions Jamie. Jamie tells the abbot that the cup is telling him to “put the cup back”. Jamie notices the cup has a carving of a split standing stone at the base.

What do you think of Jamies reaction to the cup? Is he picking up something supernatural or is he just reacting to Quinn's offer?

Jamie makes a decision to tell Michael of what is happening. Tell tells about the Grays, Quinn, and finally Geneva and Willy. The telling leaves Jamie in a state of peace while Abbot Michael tries to find some solutions to his dilemma. Michael says that Jamie should consider getting on with his life, leaving William to his family. He suggests that soon Jamie should consider leaving Claire to God and seek a marriage.

Do you think the Abbot is trying to lead Jamie with this advice? Why?

As they talk, Michael leads Jamie into the bog. Jamie is begining to be suspicious of Michael's meanings, even though the abbot is rambling on about Celtic lore and religion. Once the abbot has lead Jamie into the bog, he shows him a rock that is said to be the seat of kings. Michael places the cup on the stone and tells Jamie that he knows who Jamie is. In the past, he was a warrior for the rightful King. Michael tries to appeal to Jamie to take the cup and lead the rebellion. Jamie tells the Abbot that he is done with useless causes and that the rebellion will never succeed. Michael seeing that he is not getting to Jamie starts to pull out the big guns and appeals to Jamie’s duty and honor. Jamie considers telling Michael how he knows the rebellion will fail, but decides to keep his story of Claire to himself.

Why doesn't Jamie just tell the Abbot about Claire? The Abbot clearly believes in the supernatural. Considering where they are and the stories Abbot is telling he would be able to believe.

Michael insists that Jamie could be the man anointed to lead the rebellion to victory. Jamie has a strong since of presence and shutters. Was the dead man like Claire? A time traveler? Maybe Claire did not make it back to her time? He says a prayer for her and the child. Jamie asks Michael for absolution and when Michael holds back, Jamie accuses him of denying his wish because Jamie will not take the cup. Michael shows patience, gives him absolution, but not before suggesting that Jamie will not remember the words. Jamie tells Michael to leave him to find his way back to the monastery.

Do you think the Abbot is teasing Jamie about remembering the Holy Words or do you think Abbot Michael has a deeper meaning? What do you thing about our Abbott?

What other observations do you have on this chapter?

I think Quinn hoped that Jamie would go to the abbey, but I don't think he knew about the poem (or did he?), so I didn't think he knew that John's business would send Jamie to the same place as Quinn's business needed him to go. And, I think the abbot just reminded Jamie of a leprechaun in his looks (like Master Raymond reminded Claire of a frog - or toad?), I don't think Jamie thought he made shoes or collected gold in a pot a the end of a rainbow.

My impression is that the cup was having more of an effect on Jamie than just knowing it's the one Quinn mentioned and wants Jamie to take. And, especially once Jamie sees the split stone and the gemstones (as someone else pointed out shortly after reading since I didn't recognize the significance of the gems myself) - although, Jamie doesn't know the significance of the gemstones yet, does he? Don't they find that out in Voyager which is in his future? Well, the split stone anyway - I think he is feeling something, presumably supernatural, relating to Claire and time travel and who knows what else.

I'm glad Jamie was able to find some peace after unburdening himself to the abbot, but I was pretty annoyed with the abbot for hesitating to give him absolution because he didn't want to lead the new Jacobite plot. I understand those are his political views, but as an abbot and a friend of Jamie's uncle, I felt he should have done his duty to absolve Jamie and kept the political issues separate. As for not telling the abbot about Claire's time travel, I think part of it was because the abbot was pushing the political agenda and that changed the nature of their conversation. Jamie had certainly confided enough at that point. And, maybe he wanted to keep Claire and her ability to himself. He keeps thinking of her and the child and to some extent that is private and something he wants to keep as his own and no one else's.

Last spring, I had a read a book Haunted Ground by Erin Hart about a bog body. I hadn't known about them before, but then about 8 months later in SP, here was another. Strange timing. I also thought it was interesting that the beetle the abbot shows Jamie came from Lawrence Stern who appears in Voyager. Kind of a "small world" moment. This must have been before Jamie met Stern in Edinburgh, though, so the name wouldn't have meant anything to him, only to us, the readers.

I don't think Quinn initally thought that Jamie quld end up at the monastery for the peom. Hwe may have suspected that Jamie would be near, but Quinn wanted Jamie in Ireland, even before Jamie was ordered to go there. I think it was all just an "outlandish coincidence."

I thought it was funny how Jamie mentioned that the abbot looked like a lepreachaun - since Claire described Murtagh as a gibbon when she first saw him, and if I am remembering correctly they are related. ( i don't have the book in front of me) I also liked the fact that the abbot heard of Claire at the abbey in France

I think Jamie's reaction to the cup is both because of Quinn description of the cup and it returning the true King of Scotland, but also because of where the cup was found with the bog body. Bodies were purposely thrown into bogs (typically by people who needed to get rid of a body fast) Then the triple killings would give an errie feel to just about anything.

I liked the abbot until he became about the peer pressure. It is obvious that Jamie lost a great deal in the previous rising, and to put that on him again even while he is under parole. Also he had just confessed about Willie and everything at Helwater, and the father tries to tell him that he does not belong there with Willie, was enough for me. I thought it was selfish for the abbot to force that demand on Jamie. I could understand him asking but they way he did it bothered me.

I can also understand Jamie not telling the abbot of Claire and what she knows. She has been viewed as one of the auld ones - as this in turn could cause fear and misunderstanding. They could in turn view Jamie as a threat. Additionally the only thing that he has left of Claire is their memories. I know if I was him i wouldn't want to share those with anyone.

Jamie holds his memories of Claire tightly to himself in order to preserve them, and perhaps to keep himself whole and grounded. But it also leaves him to continue grieving, as he has no way to let it go, to share it with others. The abbot can see this, but he does not inspire Jamie's trust, and Jamie decides to continue to hold this part of his life tight.

Jamie also identifies the cleft rock as potential danger of a sort that he cannot control. He is afraid of the stones and the mayhem that can occur because of them. To mention anything to do with them is to potentially open up a can of worms, especially since he can sense some sort of negative energy regarding the cup.

It is most likely this combination that causes Jamie to decide against mentioning Claire.

I wonder. .... Maybe the abbot already knew about the time traveling .... The abbot has heard of Claire from Alexander in France. Would he have known about Claire's time traveling from Alexander in France? I forget which one she told her dilemma to, and whether he might have shared it with other monks.

Didn't Claire tell her story of time travel (and her '2 husband' issue) to Brother Anselm in confession? and shouldn't that have precluded him sharing her story with any of the other monks?

Not sure that it was in confession. But I do think it was Brother Anselm.

I went and took a look at the conversation between Claire and Br Anselem. I do not see anything that would indicate that the BR. would have told anyone of his conversation with Claire. He seems to have taken her at face value. He is interested in her story and the 20th century. Considering what the Church had to say about witchcraft and the supernatural, I would say that he would keep her confidence.

I got chills when Jamie "had a sudden odd feeling that someone was standing just behind his shoulders." He clearly sensed a presence as Father Michael discussed the body found in the bog. The fact that the man had been violently murdered -- cut throat and also strangled with a thin rope wrapped tight around his neck -- made the discovery of the body evern more gruesome. Later on, Father asks him if he feels the bog man's presence, to which Jamie responds that he does -- "the sense of someone standing behing him was back and had about it something of . . . eagerness? Desperation? He could not say what it was exactly, but it was bloody unsettling." It is as if this presence is asking Jamie to do the right thing and return the cup to its burial place. Jamie then considers the possiblity that the bog man was a time traveler, which is quite possible. Is that why Jamie doesn't mention Claire to the Father, because he would then have to explain their shared trait -- the capability to time travel?

It was interesting that although raised Scottish, Jamie recites the Act of Contrition in French. I got the feeling that he had attoned for much when he was living in France, both before he met Claire and when they lived there prior to the battle at Culloden.

This is one of my favorite chapters so far. I finished it this morning.
I am so glad that Jamie got to confess his sins.
While Jamie was walking in the bog I felt a mistrust of the abbot and it didn't surprise me that he asked Jamie to partake of the rebellion. I held my breath when Jamie thought the abbot might withhold the absolution. And then he said it "Ego te absolvo" and I even felt like i'd gone to confession.

The feeling of someone being there is one I have experienced myself and it is most unsettling.
Whoever the man of the gems was, the cup may have been a time traveling instrument. Perhaps it was constructed with that purpose in mind and the man was going to use it to return elsewhere. Why would the ghost of the dead man need the cup back, though? Or was it to prevent someone else, another time traveler from finding it and returning? Was the cup meant for Jamie to find, to lead him to the place? The cup has a power, but what exactly might it be?

I didn't realize it when I first read this chapter, but after a second read, I think the bogman was a time traveler. Jamie and Father Michael discuss the teind early on in the chapter and given the bogman's gruesome death, the cup (with gems AND carving of the stones) and the presence of the standing stones nearby...

I'm curious about why/how Jamie can feel the supernatural presence when it seems that Father Michael does not.

Oooh. Good question, Mary. I think that Jamie is gifted with the sight (as Jenny) and that gives him certain abilities, even though he himself is not a time traveler. I think that William too is able to hear the whispers of the dead. (I'll have to think of the chapter showing this.) Also, the ghost may sense that Jamie is familiar with time traveling and feels that Jamie would understand the repercussions of futile causes. Perhaps, just as Jamie knows that the Jacobites will fail again, the bogman is there to give him the impetus to return what was his.
It did scare Jamie into thinking about whether Claire had a similar fate. Was she able to make it through? Did she wander, get lost?