It is currently Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:39 pm



Welcome
Welcome to outlanderbookclub

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. In addition, registered members also see less advertisements. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: ABOSAA: Jamie's confession about Mary McNab
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:44 am 
Offline
emerald member

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:01 pm
Posts: 129
Image



I'm curious: why do you all think Jamie confessed this incident to Claire now, and in this frighteningly heavy manner, after all this time? Oddly, the lone incident with Mary McNab was the least offensive to me of the three women Jamie slept with during Claire's absence. I was much more upset about Geneva, and the marriage to Leoghaire. Is this Jamie's attempt to (finally) "come clean" and tell Claire the last of all the things he should have told her earlier? Why does he talk about it as if it was adultery? Are we to understand that he considered it adultery in his own heart, even though Claire was 200 years away, likely never to return? IMO, they have long ago forgiven each other the things they did during those 20 years apart -- and the important thing is that they remain faithful to each other now that they are together. I'd like to hear your thoughts. (BTW, I am glad and relieved whenever Jamie confirms that he does think it's wrong and a betrayal to lie with another woman when one is married. Sometimes I worry he is going to adopt the "Claire has my heart; this other woman only got my body" philosophy in order to justify sex with another. With women --and men-- always throwing themselves at him, I need to know that his principles are firmly in place...)


Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Jamie's confession about Mary McNab
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:45 am 
Offline
Clan Fraser
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:16 pm
Posts: 6077
Well, I think that perhaps he felt that Claire might still return. He hadn't given up hope yet. Remember that he decides to give himself up because he remembered Claire saying that the prisoners would no longer be hanged after a number of years. And while Jamie is in Ardsmuir he hears rumors of the white witch and jewels. He tried escaping then at that time because he thought she had returned. So, I think, that in his eyes he was committing a form of adultery because he believed that she was still attainable.

With Geneva, it was a matter of protecting his family. Claire did the same thing when she went to see the King, knowing full well what would be expected of her. Jamie, as Claire, felt justified. He later felt quite guilty about the fact that it caused her death. You must read Brotherhood of the Blade if you haven't. It will give you greater breadth and understanding of Jamie with regard to this.

With Loaghaire, he had totally given up hope. He returned from Ardsmuir in a fog. Jamie needed to feel useful to his men to his broken homeland and the people in it. Loaghaire needed him and he felt that he could serve his community by taking on the responsibility of a widow and her children. Meanwhile, back at home, Claire was fulfilling her marital obligations, albeit minimally. Both marriages were in trouble--Jamie's to Loaghaire and Claire's to Frank. Even though they socially tried to fulfill what was expected of them, their hearts belonged elsewhere and elsewhen.

_________________
"'I wish to God,' said Gideon with mild exasperation, 'that you'd talk--just once--in prose like other people.'"
--Game of Kings


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Jamie's confession about Mary McNab
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:21 pm 
Offline
Clan Fraser
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:41 pm
Posts: 13740
Location: New York
I always thought Jamie confessed to Claire about Mary McNab because in his heart he felt that he had been unfaithful to Claire by sleeping with Mary. This guilt must have been prompted by Malva's accusation, which was false, but nonetheless made him feel that he needed to atone to Claire for his sins. At that point in the separation (about 7 years), Jamie may have held some hope that Claire would return to him, but as the years went by, it became less likely.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Jamie's confession about Mary McNab
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:41 pm 
Offline
emerald member

Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:14 pm
Posts: 123
Yes I agree. I felt that Mary knew how much J and C loved each other and wanted to give Jamie something to hang onto. I believe that Mary knew that Jamie would be thinking of Claire during their moment.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Jamie's confession about Mary McNab
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:50 pm 
Offline
Clan Fraser Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:58 am
Posts: 6695
Location: England
marypatc wrote:
I believe that Mary knew that Jamie would be thinking of Claire during their moment.


:agree: I think you're absolutely right - I think Claire was always forefront in Jamie's heart and mind regardless of which woman was keeping his bed warm.

_________________
"It has always been forever, for me, Sassenach"

ImageImage

“Sassenach." He had called me that from the first; the Gaelic word for outlander, a stranger. An Englishman. First in jest, then in affection.”



My Book Blog


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Jamie's confession about Mary McNab
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:44 pm 
Offline
Clan Fraser
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:19 pm
Posts: 3008
Location: Rhode Island
marypatc wrote:
Yes I agree. I felt that Mary knew how much J and C loved each other and wanted to give Jamie something to hang onto. I believe that Mary knew that Jamie would be thinking of Claire during their moment.


Actually, I think that Mary wanted some part of Jamie to hang onto. She may have said that she was doing this for "him", but I kinda think she wanted this for herself. :mischief:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Jamie's confession about Mary McNab
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:00 pm 
Offline
Clan Fraser
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:16 pm
Posts: 6077
Pauline wrote:
marypatc wrote:
Yes I agree. I felt that Mary knew how much J and C loved each other and wanted to give Jamie something to hang onto. I believe that Mary knew that Jamie would be thinking of Claire during their moment.


Actually, I think that Mary wanted some part of Jamie to hang onto. She may have said that she was doing this for "him", but I kinda think she wanted this for herself. :mischief:

I kinda agree, Pauline. If it were anyone else, I doubt she would not have been so forthcoming. Jamie is darn attractive and she wanted to gift him as well as herself.

_________________
"'I wish to God,' said Gideon with mild exasperation, 'that you'd talk--just once--in prose like other people.'"
--Game of Kings


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Jamie's confession about Mary McNab
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:06 pm 
Offline
Clan Fraser Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:59 pm
Posts: 3333
Location: Sitting by the fire with Jamie.
I think he considered it adultery because it was outside marriage. Yes, the sex with Geneva was outside marriage but he was pretty much forced into that. IMO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Jamie's confession about Mary McNab
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:06 pm 
Offline
Clan Fraser
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:41 pm
Posts: 13740
Location: New York
NigheanDubh wrote:
Pauline wrote:
marypatc wrote:
Yes I agree. I felt that Mary knew how much J and C loved each other and wanted to give Jamie something to hang onto. I believe that Mary knew that Jamie would be thinking of Claire during their moment.


Actually, I think that Mary wanted some part of Jamie to hang onto. She may have said that she was doing this for "him", but I kinda think she wanted this for herself. :mischief:

I kinda agree, Pauline. If it were anyone else, I doubt she would not have been so forthcoming. Jamie is darn attractive and she wanted to gift him as well as herself.


Who can blame her? I just love how Jamie is so penitent about the whole episode and Claire is so oblivious commenting "Who. The. Hell. Is. Mary. McNab" and then once realization settles in "Her?"

It was very touching of Claire to reassure Jamie that she understood what had happened between Jamie and Mary. "'I understand, . . . I do.' And I did. Not only about Mary McNab and what she had done--but why he'd told me now. There was no need; I would never have known. No need but the need for absolute honesty between us--and that I must know it was there. I had believed him, about Malva. But now I had not only certainty of mind--but peace of heart." :<3:

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Jamie's confession about Mary McNab
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:54 am 
Offline
topaz member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Arizona
Agreed.

Jamie was being accused of the ultimate betrayal of Claire. He knew the accusations were untrue--as did she (deep down). He had nothing to give her except confession of the one "betrayal" he DID commit.

(yes I remember that he was married to Leoghaire.)

_________________
Image
www.MorganKearns.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ABOSAA: Jamie's confession about Mary McNab
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:40 am 
Offline
topaz member

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:23 pm
Posts: 3
I read the confession for the first time just this morning and my impression is that Jamie was telling Claire what it felt like to betray her, what it had cost him emotionally, and how it could never happen lightly, as Malva was claiming. It had not been his idea to lie with Mary; he was "gently coerced" into accepting Mary's offer because he was desperate for his own woman's touch. Mary may have had her own best interests at heart but she wanted to thank Jamie for all he did for her and her son (that's what she said, anyway). I think she needed to feel what it was like to be made love to by a passionate, honorable man. Saying it was for him would make him think of Claire (naturally) and she'd be on the receiving end of that. Not an evil thing, to be sure.

For Jamie, after 7 years not only without Claire, but completely alone, and the way the offer was presented, how could he not accept? I think he thought it was adultery in his soul, but everything else pointed to it not being true adultery. Claire owns his soul so he had to (finally) show her this blemish. She understood why he did it. Also, she understood that because he didn't have to tell her, it was an even more precious insight into his soul and feeling for her.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
suspicion-preferred